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caa4441770aaa1bf4240fa30ee5e8f1f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Shae Corey
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Phyllis Theresa Shepherd
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center, Rosedale Alabama
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
SHAE COREY: So, if you wouldn’t mind starting just saying your name…
PHYLLIS SHEPHERD: Phyllis Theresa Shepherd.
SHAE COREY: Perfect, and have you lived in Rosedale your whole life or…how long have you lived here?
PTS: Well, I was actually a visitor, my grandparents, both sets of grandparents lived here and they lived across the street from each other.
SHAE COREY: Really?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: My maternal grandparents uhm lived on 25th Court and my paternal grandparents on 19th Street South.
SHAE COREY: Wow and so did both of your parents grow up here?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: They did.
SHAE COREY: And where did they live after they moved, did they move away from Rosedale, or?
PTS: They did when they married. Uhm, when my parents married in February 1957, they moved to the Woodlawn area of Birmingham, that was more or less their first residence as newlyweds. They roomed with an elderly lady uh and they only stayed there maybe barely a year. And then they moved to the Titusville area of Birmingham.
SHAE COREY: Wow, so did you grow up there?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yes.
SHAE COREY: But you came and visited here to see your grandparents?
PTS: I sure did.
SHAE COREY: So, what did they tell you about Rosedale, like your parents and your grandparents?
PTS: They really, they you know always spoke about you know the good times, the fact that it was a traditional neighborhood. Uh it was a neighborhood in which uhm black people were very affluent, uh they had, many of them had their own businesses, and it was a—it was just really a very tight-knit community uh everyone knew everybody. Uh adults could chastise anybody’s child if they were doing wrong, that kind of thing. It was sort of like a community you’d see on T.V. like The Waltons or something.
SHAE COREY: Mhm! (Laughter) Yeah.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm.
SHAE COREY: So, do you go to church in Rosedale or…
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yes.
SHAE COREY: What church do you go to?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: I go to Bethel A.M.E. Church on Mamie L. Foster’s 18th Place South uh and the street in recent times and uh the latter part of the twentieth century was named for educator Mamie Labon Foster.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, who was she? So, I’ve heard a little bit about B.M. Montgomery, I believe, but I don’t think I know anything about her specifically.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yes, mhm. Miss Foster was a uh, she, she was an educator and she was also I think a member on the Homewood City Council at one time.
SHAE COREY: Oh, wow.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: So, she was, she is very well known, very prominent. Later years, of course, she ended up I think uhm living with her niece in California.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: When she couldn’t, you know, take care of herself anymore.
SHAE COREY: Mhm. So, did your grandparents, or your parents ever talk about, like any problems within Rosedale? Or…anything like that?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Very few, I, I didn’t hear. You know there’s no place or no sense of people that are perfect but uh the problems to me were minimal. Not like now.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: They didn’t have the levels of violence within the community like now. No. Even, even uh, African-American white relations were different. As opposed to Birmingham. Uh when my father was growing up uh the police used to watch little black boys and white boys play football. There in the field for example. There was, however, surely discriminations as far as schools. They attended Rosedale High, which was all black. And of course, the white kids went to Shades Valley, Shades Cahaba. At the time, Shades Cahaba was actually a high school. Now it’s an elementary school. But uh, just in general, kids had a tendency to play together, believe it or not. Mhm.
(Microphone crackling)
SHAE COREY: The black and white students?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm, yeah. In some of the neighborhoods, yeah at least I know that dad mentioned about the boys playing football, mhm.
SHAE COREY: Well—wow… so you mentioned that your grandmother was 105?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: 105, that’s my paternal grandmother.
SHAE COREY: And she lived here her whole life?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: She did.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: She moved here 19—around 1933. She actually was born in Barbour county in Eufala. Mhm.
SHAE COREY: Interesting.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: So, I guess—that, she would’ve moved here I guess when she was about 23, 24 years old.
SHAE COREY: Mhm. So, did your parents and your grandparents talk a lot about Rosedale as uhm like did they ever talk about the changes in the community after uhm the end of segregation or anything like that?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm. I would say mostly it would seem like they were losing uh a whole on the, so to speak, on the land, on the property. It seemed like it was slowly eroding away, people were selling out. Uh, land wasn’t necessarily being just taken or anything without compensation, people were just selling out. Uh, I don’t know sometimes when people see money they’ve never seen before…
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Some people have never seen fifty, twenty-five, even twenty-five thousand dollars at one time.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: They’ve seen it on paper, in figures, but that’s it.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, that makes sense.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm, and so they just, they sell out and this is why you have the, the freeway you have because there were houses all down that way.
SHAE COREY: Mhm! What was, what do you think, if your grandmother was still here, what do you think she would say was her favorite part about growing up in Rosedale, or something that she just loved about this community?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: I would think she probably would’ve said there was more love, everybody was close.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Uhm, you could be, you know that was the thing, it was the type of environment where a neighbor could borrow a cup of sugar, a cup of flour—maybe adults could be out talking across the fence, so to speak and somebody could tell a child, “Baby, go in the house, go in my house and, and check on those peas that were on the stove and turn them off.” Uh, people didn’t lock their doors.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: People as a whole, they uhm slept on the porch if they wanted to when it was hot yeah during the summer because they had screened-in porches, lot of people did.
SHAE COREY: People used to sleep on the porch? And keep their doors unlocked? (Laughter)
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yeah. People, people didn’t bother them back then. They just didn’t bother folks.
SHAE COREY: So, I know earlier you mentioned different types of violence in Rosedale, now. Like what types of violence?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm. I think even now, I, I still think this is a low crime area. Even, I really do. This is low crime as opposed to where I am in the Birmingham area unfortunately where it looks like every time you turn on Fox 6 it’s who got killed last night. It’s, it’s a different culture. Different feeling. It’s just different now.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah. I think everywhere is a little different, now, probably.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: It is, and I think it’s upbringing. That’s another thing, you know like I was mentioning earlier, uh you know adults could chastise other people’s children. And what would happen, and it was like that somewhat when I was growing up even in Birmingham. You didn’t bring shame to your family. So, yeah you were hoping word didn’t get out that Miss Brown or, or, or Mr. White had to say something to you. You were hoping it didn’t get back to your parents you know, yeah.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. A different culture of honor, I guess.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: That’s true! That is so true, mhm.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. That’s very interesting. Well, is there anything else that…
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: I can’t think of a whole lot, but it just to me was so unique knowing that my maternal grandparents lived here on 25th Court and my paternal grandparents were on 19th Street, they of course, were neighbors they knew each other. My parents were five years, had a five-year difference in age. So, quite naturally they wouldn’t have socialized as kids because it made a difference. Dad was graduating high school and he went to the Korea conflict. He did enlist in the air force. And mom was back here in school, in high school. So, it made a difference. Yeah.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. So, did they meet when he came back from the air force, did he come back to Rosedale or?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yeah. Yeah, he did for a while, because they married in ’57 and I was born during that time. So yeah, they hooked up so to speak.
SHAE COREY: (Laughter)
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: It was interesting.
SHAE COREY: That’s funny that they lived right across the street from each other and didn’t know.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yeah. They didn’t—you know, they knew each other and all but, you know it’s, it’s different if a girl is five and uh, a boy is ten. You know, that kind of thing they have different classmates, different everything, yeah. Different friends.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. But they still fell in love!
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: I’m telling you.
(Laughter)
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Still, it’s been really interesting. You know, we miss dad. Dad passed away in ’17. So, it’s been one of those things. Adjustments, adjustments. Yeah. That’s him on the screen over there.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. Oh, really, he got interviewed too?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm, he was interviewed three times.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: It was a part one two and three. My grandmother’s on there too somewhere. They’re all on YouTube. And two other old Rosedale residents too. Miss Doris Cunningham, and Miss Mary Edwards, was yeah, mhm.
SHAE COREY: Cool. Well it’s kind of cool that you got to be interviewed too! Get your whole family.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm. Yeah! Well it’s been enjoyable, it’s very nice what they have set up for you all. And this is a good project for you in school.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, absolutely well thank you so much for—
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: You’re welcome.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
9:50
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Phyllis Theresa Shepherd Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest, Rosedale Memories
Description
An account of the resource
Phyllis Theresa Shepherd describes her numerous visits to Rosedale to see her two sets of grandparents, who lived across the street from one another. She speaks of her time within the community, the churches in the neighborhood and the changes she has seen in past years.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
Birmingham
community
family
generations
home
Homewood Alabama
neighborhood
Rosedale
-
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85a7dc955b9f151cc0d7fe8bf54368fe
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Shae Corey
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Josephine Jerald
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center, Rosedale Alabama
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
SHAE COREY: So, did you grow up in Rosedale your whole life or?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, all my life other than uh eighteen years of marriage. But, I, I've been in Rosedale all my life.
SHAE COREY: What was it like growing up in Rosedale?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Do you want to know my name?
SHAE COREY: Oh yeah, you can do your name.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: I'm Josephine Jerald, I live at 1708 25th Terrace South, Rosedale Alabama, 35209 and I love Rosedale, I don't want to live anywhere else. I feel safe, everybody friendly, everybody know everybody, we are all like family. Any problems, people will everybody come to each other, like funerals and banquets and churches we all like one family, when we go to the hospital, everybody, a lot of people come and visit with us. And it's just a good feeling to feel like you belong.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: So, I, I, this is Jefferson County, Rosedale AL and Rosedale Highschool was a like, was like a family, grades 1-12, I know no other school that, was like that. One, grades one through twelve. (Children in background) Everybody, the little ones were in elementary, then you moved in the same building to middle school and high school. The middle school and high school children took care of the elementary children to make sure they got home safely every evening, that was their job to make sure everybody got home safely. We walked home.
SHAE COREY: And everybody looked out for everybody else? In the neighborhood?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes. And we had books--but they was old books. Some of the pages was torn, but the, the, we made it through whatever we was taught.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: But the greater thing about Rosedale is I'm going to name you some of the people, the graduates and their occupation.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: One of my friends is a judge now, several nurses, several teachers, several lawyers, barber shop people, cosmetology, poets...
SHAE COREY: Wow.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: You name it.
SHAE COREY: So, they were well prepared for--
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Well prepared under the conditions that we had, we didn't have new books we had to use the books that was shipped from the better schools to us and some of the pages was torn out, but we still learned.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, yeah. Do you--
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Under those conditions.
SHAE COREY: So, this, I know the school and the churches were a really big part of the Rosedale community, right? And--
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, yes. But my sister, not here but she, she--is he bothering?
SHAE COREY: No, no he can touch it it's okay.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: My sister, not here to tell you but she was 90 years old, she got the flu today she wanted to come but what happened was she remembered when the school was burned on Loveless Street.
SHAE COREY: Aw. Really? Was that when the school was made of wood or?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Loveless Street changed to B.M. Montgomery Street, but it was Loveless Street, but the school caught on fire and burned, and the people had to go to the churches to have school.
SHAE COREY: Oh really? They had them in church after that?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, yes.
SHAE COREY: For how long? For just until they could rebuild the school?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: I don't remember but my sister, would remember if she was here.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: But they did have church in school because the school caught on fire on Loveless Street.
SHAE COREY: Mhm. Yeah. Well, do you know like why it burned or?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: I don't know how it burned or why, I don't know the reason I just remember her telling me that, I was so little.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, yeah. Do you remember when the school closed, because of desegregation?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, uh we went to uh Shades Valley as they closed this school down. And they went to Shades Valley, I forgot what year it was though.
SHAE COREY: 69, maybe? But how did that change the community do you think?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: It, it changed it because a lot of my friends and uh their parents wanted the children to go for segregation, but they didn't want to go because they were afraid and they were bullied and some came home hurt, and they couldn't study because they was too scared to study because they was so, the way they was treated in the classroom.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: They learned, but they did this because of the cause.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: They made history by going, but they didn't want to go because they were afraid.
SHAE COREY: Hmm. So how do you think the community has changed since then, like over time, since you've been here for so long?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Over time, the community's not as close because a lot got married and moved away, there's not as many homeowners like me. I live in a home house, I got married and came back home and my kids went to Homewood High School and uh his mother, his mother went to Homewood. So, this is my great grand, my great grandbaby.
SHAE COREY: Hi!
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Say hello.
(Laughter)
JOSEPHINE JERALD: So, we don't have the closeness as we used to.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: We, only closeness we have is the churches. But--
SHAE COREY: Okay, do you still go to...
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, I got to Friendship Baptist Church but it's a lot of Mexicans, stop baby, and Latinos live in my community now, it's not the same like I can knock on your door and ask for a cup of sugar, they, they, speak English, they live that close to me but I don't feel like I can have a conversation with them. So, I don't try.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: But the lady on the right side, she's Caucasian, she's nice but I don't hardly see her.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: But the one on the left side, Latinos, they don't say much but again still, and the one in front of me is Mexicans, I got about five on one street that's Mexicans I mean with me, but they don't bother me. Nuh uh, don't do that. But I don't fear. They, they, I don't feel--I feel safe with them but they don't feel safe to live next to me.
SHAE COREY: Do you think that like the church now, the churches in Rosedale are still like big, they still have the community feel of Rosedale or--
JOSEPHINE JERALD: They're not as close as they should be.
SHAE COREY: Not as close. Because the people don't live there?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Uh huh, they moved out. Mhm. What time do you have?
SHAE COREY: It is...it is 4:32. Do you have to go?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: I have to go pickup my daughter from work.
SHAE COREY: Okay, well thank you so much for talking to me, uhm--
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
7:38
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Josephine Jerald Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest, Rosedale Memories
Description
An account of the resource
Josephine Jerald details her life in Rosedale, Alabama and the changes she has seen within the community over time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
community
encroachment
gentrification
hometown
houses
neighborhood
-
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3cf4646db970f32079e20ff2a9ca0e5c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jonathan Lawson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Harriet Hall Pullom
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center, Rosedale AL
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
JONATHAN LAWSON: Alright, so this is Jonathan Lawson, uh would you mind telling me your name?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: My name is Harriet Hall Pullom, I was Hall when I grew up in Rosedale so that's my maiden name, Hall.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Okay.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yeah.
JONATHAN LAWSON: And how long have you lived in Rosedale?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I just turned sixty in November and I've been in Rosedale ninety percent of my life.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Wow, wow.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: And I wouldn't live anywhere else.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Why is that? Tell me what you love about Rosedale.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM : Uh, the thing that I love about Rosedale is the community aspect is that I always felt like we were always family, that you were never by yourself, that no matter what street you went on there was somebody who knew you and related to you and who would help you if you got in trouble, I just liked the community aspect of it.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Mhm, so tell me about some of the things that you remember growing up… maybe church or school or something along those lines?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: So, I went to Rosedale High School until that closed down, so it was always, we walked to school, we walked up the hill to school. And you knew all the people in your classroom and the teachers they were more than they--your teachers, they were your family. You could tell that they cared about you getting an education and wanting you to have an education and so they didn't put up with foolishness. That you had to do what you were supposed to do while you were there. Best cooks in the world, the lunchroom you know they were just they were on point, they always had good food, cinnamon rolls, peanut butter cookies, everything they all had their specialty.
JONATHAN LAWSON: You're speaking my language, now!
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: (Laughter) And the thing about it is, not only were they the people in the lunchroom, they were the people at your church. So, if you did something wrong at school, your parents would be in the know because they were going to tell on you. And that was the thing is that it takes a village, people say that now but actually when we grew up, it was a village. I mean, if you did something on one street, by the time you got home, somebody else already told your mom and you were going to be in trouble. And you better not say you didn't do it because you could not talk or tell adults were telling a story on you. If they said you did it, you did it.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So, I know you've been here, a long time--
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yeah.
JONATHAN LAWSON: What were some of the challenges you remember about this area growing up that you think really shaped your views of this area?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I think--I don't think we understood the challenge until we got older. I think because if I had sugar, you had sugar. If I had something you didn't have, then you could ask me for it and they would provide it. We used to call it like a cup, if you didn't have sugar then you sent next door and said, “Tell Mrs. so and so to send me a cup of sugar.” And if you needed something—and everybody on our street didn't have a telephone so if one person had a phone, it was the community's phone, you know they would say, “Go down the street and tell so and so they have a call,” so I don't think we really understood just how poor we were, because we never felt that. Because our parents never, never let us feel that way. Because if we needed something, there was going to be a way for us to get it. I can remember that, when we had to go to Edgewood and the Homewood High School and the middle school our parents got together, and they got a bus. You know they put their money, their resources together--we had a bus to take us to school because the school system did not provide that for us, so our parents always made sure that we had what we needed.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Is there a location or a building that is no longer here that you really miss?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I mean even this building is not the same way when we grew up, you know and the thing I miss is the High School from Rosedale being there, the school being there. We had stores, we had corner stores, you know, laundry mats, I can honestly say everything we needed was in our community. We had everything we needed in our community and so we didn't have to go out looking for things. And we were saying this in a meeting not too long ago is, I lived on the other side of the highway and we weren’t allowed to come on this side of the highway without adult supervision because it was always a highway, you know it was always dangerous and stuff so you kind of stayed on your side and they stayed and the only time you came together was either church or school.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So, my history of the area is not as, as good as it probably should be, uhm, was the highway built during the time that you were here, was it there already, how, how did that come about?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yeah because even when you came up here today, all that that's highway now used to be houses. We can remember when people lived there you know that it's, that it’s not there anymore and even going down there where there’s buildings are, where businesses are there were families that lived there so a part of Rosedale is missing because it's gone, it’s business now so a lot of what we knew as Rosedale isn't there anymore.
JONATHAN LAWSON: How do you think that shaped the community as it is today?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I, it's like when you grew up you really didn't really know what you had until it's gone, so I think people moved away, looking for better but didn’t realize they had it all the time. And so, when they grew up, they went to another community they didn't want to come back and now they wish they had that, because we had everything right here but as you grow up you think, you know, “I'm going to do better for myself” and instead of investing in this community, they invested somewhere else.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So why did you choose to stay?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I, I don't even know if I would know how to function anywhere else. You know, because, I still have that love for my community, even though it's not the same, I still have a next-door neighbor that if I need sugar, Miss Barbara gives me sugar, if she needs something you know. And so, uh I went to visit my daughter in D.C. and they were like do you have a security system, yeah, it's called Barbara Pope! (Laughter) And so, I know that if something happens, she's going to let me know, you know what’s going on and so we always had that. If somebody died in the community we went around we took up money for flowers or if somebody died and they didn’t have insurance, we would take up money to help the family out. So that’s why I say we always had the support we needed right here in our community.
JONATHAN LAWSON: What do you want the people of Birmingham as a whole to know about this area?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: It's that we love our community. We love our community. I would not move away. I just turned sixty in November, my kids say, “Ma you need to!” I want to be here. This is where I want to grow up and spend my life because it’s community, it’s love, it’s networking. And even though a lot of people have moved away, it’s nothing like coming back home and seeing those people.
JONATHAN LAWSON: That's wonderful, that's wonderful.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yeah.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Are there any areas that I haven't asked you about that you'd like to talk about or?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I think you've done a good job!
JONATHAN LAWSON: Pretty good, okay.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yes yes, you've done a good job and I'll just say that when we grew up there was always something for us to do. Like in the summer time we have Spring Park we used to have a swimming pool, we could go, and swim and they had programs in the summertime for us to have, we had programs we went on fieldtrips, they, like I said, they always provided us with what we need to grow so we never felt left out. We went to different trips, they would take us to Six Flags and you know we've always every summer we did a trip.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So, I'll ask you one last question, what are your dreams for this area in the next few years?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Ah! I wish, it is my prayer that people would reinvest in the community that people would see the value of growing up in a community, the thing that I am proud of is that my kids got to experience Rosedale, so they know what it is to grow up in a community. My daughter lives in D.C. She doesn’t even know the person that lives next door to her. You understand? But we knew everybody knew everybody, so if I was in trouble, they would see about me. if they didn't see me, they would call and say hey are you alright over there? People miss that now, you know you walk in your house and you, you just an island. It's nothing like being in a community.
JONATHAN LAWSON: That's wonderful, thank you so much for your time.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Thank you, for your time, Jonathan!
(Laughter)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
8:38
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Harriet Hall Pullom Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest, Memories of Rosedale
Description
An account of the resource
Harriet Hall Pullom narrates her experience living in Rosedale "90%" of her life. She recalls childhood memories of the area and speaks of her current living situation in the neighborhood. She speaks about her intense love for her community, the safety she feels within Rosedale and her hopes for the neighborhood's future.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
Birmingham AL
community
encroachment
family
generations
gentrification
home
Homewood AL
houses
memory
neighborhood
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46085/archive/files/365d1b241a291ee181976233ba97e335.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=Yb7mMe8Ec-50sX-ZbIECQg%7ENh1iYW5TMXSeinAmwunzBCWfRi44GXXqJqNxMoUTead93kwychBFTRE5VTl4VqOqIq6ZCHX6hAlexArTfg30EmY3QfekpFm2%7EnF4hUooUkuHLWxvPZkks2o-eU7pfPe1iRWybQJ1seSYFYTPxPnxQ0bKbv4Jkh1vpSBKtnB1tr9qLIzPkaAzq9E-HPzaXqEkFyb4i2SrWtk2kYU5nNixBbR%7EmhOT94wWo4Da-ZFRUCcJbxBny%7EDmtJnuFtlEXz3CCBToSFNZvP3HCSHKGJ4eI5qurs3wNKLwtgkJDoRBQFLCmb7tfL373TUTfWMstMg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
b5d6674d652f94f589334f8028e2564e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Shae Corey
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Anna Marie Smith
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
SHAE COREY: Okay, so first if you could just tell us your full name.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Anna Marie Smith.
SHAE COREY: And uhm did you grow up in Rosedale?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Born here 1962.
SHAE COREY: Wow so what do you remember growing up here?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, my goodness. Like I said, born here 1962 lived here 'til 1980. So, I remember living in three different houses, here. Uh...
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yeah, one down on 25th place up on the car line--it's now next to where golden nugget used to sit, golden nugget restaurant. My father, Johnny Smith, served as head chef at golden nugget.
SHAE COREY: Really?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So, I had free reign on golden nugget. Walk in the back and see all the cooks and the waitress, and I got to wash the dishes, uh the owners of golden nugget were Harry Alexius and Johnny Alexius. My father served as chef there from 19, late 50's, I'd say '58, '59.
SHAE COREY: Wow, so golden nugget was segregated?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Let's put it this way, as a restaurant during that time, there were very, very few blacks that went to eat there as patrons. It was just, not done. Uh, again, I know it from the worker side, my father was the chef, my mama worked there as well.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And all the people used to work there. And Mr. Harry and Mr. Johnny. Uh, I went to Rosedale school, first grade.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Which was 68, 69. My first-grade teacher was Miss Kennedy. Uh, spent second grade, second grade it started, integration started. So, they closed Rosedale, and I started going to Shades Cahaba. My father went to Rosedale and graduated from Rosedale, so he went there for his elementary and high school years.
SHAE COREY: How did he feel about you, or how did he feel about the school shutting down?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh, he was very sad. This school was such a tremendous part of his community, everyone lived here. You have to understand for the blacks that lived here at that time, it was Rosedale and Parker. That was it. That's where we went to school. And for the high school, a lot of the people that lived in the Shannon Oxmoor area, some of those guys were bused into Rosedale, so they went to Rosedale as well. But for the most part it was those that live here in this community that went to Rosedale. It was grades 1-12, so, but uh yeah, so like I said, I went there first grade. So, I did have one year there. Uh, remembering all the people that lived here within the neighborhood, the Montgomery’s, the Lees, my great aunt and uncle, they lived right up the street here this is uh Elberta Wortham and G.W. Wortham, uh the Grangers lived up on the hill, Mr. Jeff Granger, Reverend Henry Granger. The Bensons who lived up on the hill, Mr. Morris Benson. Then all of us that lived down Central Avenue. Uh, the churches. I'm a member of Union Baptist Church, born and raised. I have a uh, thing, I don't know if you want to get a picture.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow, yeah that's wonderful.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: That is a picture of their fiftieth anniversary. My great aunt, Miss Wortham served as church secretary for 55 years.
SHAE COREY: So, it's been around since 1887?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, it's 132 years. It's the oldest church in Birmingham.
SHAE COREY: I'm just going to move this a little closer, so this sounds better.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Okay, it's the oldest church here in Homewood.
SHAE COREY: Wow, so has your, have generations of your family gone to this church?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, yes. My father was a member there, as I said my great aunt was a member there, I was born there, and still attend. Uh...
SHAE COREY: How do you feel that the churches, like, so we've listened to a bunch of different interviews from other Rosedale members of the Rosedale community, do you feel that the churches are such a big part of the community?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: They were, at my time.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: At my time, they were very important. Because you have to remember, people lived in the community, they went to the churches in the community. So, you walked to church, you walked to choir rehearsal, you walked to vacation bible school.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: You had friendship, Union and Bethel. So, and the pastors of those churches all worked together. Vacation Bible School was all three churches. Vacation Bible School was at Union, Vacation Bible School was 9-12. So, they had the general session was at Union, classes were held at friendship, classes were held at Bethel and everyone came back together at 12 at union and dismissed. So, the churches were a big part of the community because everyone who lived in the community went to one of the three. You went to one of those three churches, so yes, they were a big part of the community. And the sense of the community. And the people that lived in the community were very proud of the community, took care of it, pride in what it looked like, pride in the way it was kept. Pride in, everyone's actions. As adults, and as children, adults looked after children, they, they could speak to any child, anyone's child--tell them to sit down and stop and you sat down and stopped. (Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Yeah! (Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And when you got home, you got another whooping because Miss so and so had called your mama and told your mama what she had done. So yes.
SHAE COREY: Yeah! That's so funny, so I know uhm Mr. Bush's interview, he talks about how this man on the street told him like, "Hey you need to tie up your shoes," and he kind of like gave him some lip, he kind of talked back and that man told his dad, and then he got in trouble twice for it.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I tell people this constantly, I have seen grown men in my lifetime, behave and show more respect than I see in a six-year old today. The guys in the neighborhood, dependent on who it was, if it was one of the deacons, or one of the pastors, I've seen those men literally stand still and would not move until that person walked by--because they knew they were, had drunk a little bit, they would be stumbling a little bit, and they did not want Mr. Benson to see them stumble, did not want Mr. Granger to see them stumble, they would stand right there and not move until they got out the way and then they would start moving. So that shows you, they knew what they were doing but they had been taught you respect your elders and that's what they did. And even when we were playing as kids, the different houses that were the houses, everyone knew who they were, where they were, if it got a little bit rowdy, we were out in the street playing, the guys would come out and they start to get rowdy, they would say “Kids outside playing, take it in the house.” And they would literally stop and go back in the house.
SHAE COREY: Wow. (Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: But that was the culture. That was just the culture of the neighborhood. And it was a vibrant, working community. All of our parents worked. But everyone looked out for each other. No one locked the door. I mean that was just psh! In fact that wasn’t even thought of. Siting on the porch watching everybody go by. Sitting on the porch until one or two o’clock in the morning.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And you know, didn’t think a thing about it.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. Wow. So talking about that culture of community and culture of respect, what was your favorite part about growing up in Rosedale? Was it that community or?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, the community. And I think I said the oddest thing I think you don’t realize, you think, you don’t realize that you didn’t have what you didn’t know that you didn’t have. We thought nothing of it because as far as I was concerned, we were wealthy. We had a house, we had food, we had clothes, you had people that you knew, we had a community. So, it wasn’t like “Oh, I’m missing this or missing that” you didn’t get that feeling at all and I look back upon it now as being very grateful because in an odd way, my generation we actually had one foot in this community and the other foot in the white community because as I said, we started Shades Cahaba in second grade, we were that first class to integrate Homewood schools. So we went to school but you came back home. You came back home to Rosedale, you lived in Rosedale, you went to church in Rosedale, you still had that community and yet you were being educated in that world.
SHAE COREY: Mhm. What was that experience like for you?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I talk about it today, it was wonderful. I don’t know whether it was just because of where we are, our parents both black and white, but there was never this (points at skin), there was never color. I still have people I went to school with in second grade I still talk with, we still meet, we still have dinner. There was never this. There was just “Oh that’s just somebody I play with, because I know him from school.” So I don’t know what it was if it was just Homewood, if it was our parents, I don’t know but it was never an issue it was just never an issue.
SHAE COREY: Did any of the teachers from the Rosedale school, what, where did they go or what did they do after the school closed?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: That’s sad, because I don’t know. Miss Kennedy, which was the first grade teacher at Rosedale, I don’t know where she went. Now, I remember Miss Almetia Simmons, she went to Edgewood.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So, she when they closed Rosedale, she went to Edgewood and she stayed at Edgewood until she retired which was the late ‘70s. She was probably one of the first black teachers at Edgewood.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: But as far as the other teachers, I don’t know. I don’t know whether they were, because Rosedale was considered a county school so I don’t know if they were transferred to other Jefferson County schools. I don’t know. But that was just a tremendous talent that was gone because as I said I only went there first grade but my father went there his entire education so he remembered all the old teachers and I remember him speaking of all the old principals and how they ran the school and what you did but I don’t know whether they got transferred to other Jefferson county schools or not, I don’t know.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah. I just found it interesting because I know that that school was such a big part of the community and those teachers and those principals lived like within that community—
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh yes!
SHAE COREY: And so I was just wondering where they went because I feel like that would be just a loss to the community because they were so talented…
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, yes. And because you had educators and quite a few famous folks to come through Rosedale. Shelley Stewart. Fred Shuttlesworth. They attended Rosedale, so that’s where they went to school. Mrs. Farris, her brother is now like a district judge in Seattle, or something.
SHAE COREY: I think I've seen his name on little posters and stuff in yards!
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, yes. And the Jacksons. So all of those people that I knew as, as adults they attended Rosedale, so that's where they went.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, so. Tremendous amount of talent to come through this community. Uh, “Buckle” Montgomery is the uncle to William of the Commodores, William "Butch" King.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow!
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So Butch would come home, my age group would be so enamored in seeing him, because in the '70s the Commodores were huge!
SHAE COREY: Yeah!
ANNA MARIE SMITH: My dad was like "Oh, yeah Butch in town, oh hey."
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: But I was like, “What?!” and he was like, “Oh ok.” But you know he knew him as “Butch,” that's what he knew him as, he knew him as “Buck,” he knew E.P. Montgomery, he knew his granddaddy, he knew Miss King so he was like, “Oh yeah, that's Butch,” so he just went, “Oh ok,” so tremendous talent has been through this school and through this neighborhood. Miss (unclear) King is Butch's grandmother.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: The Alabama Book Smith Store? That was her house.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: That was her house. That was Miss King's house.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, so kind of going off of that how do you, so you don't live in Rosedale anymore?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I do not we moved in 1980.
SHAE COREY: And so, do you come back here often?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I still attend church at Union.
SHAE COREY: Yes.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So I'm here once a week.
SHAE COREY: How do you think that it's changed or the church community has changed?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: The church community has changed but the neighborhood itself has changed, because number one the same people are not here. Those people have long since died. Uh, those of us in my age group we've moved and gone. Uhm, the houses are no longer here. The places and the lots that we see in the past, in my mind, that was miss and so and so's house or that was mister's so and so house, that's not here. And you don't see that. So that has changed. Uh, the people that live here now, their connection, their bond is not what my bond was to this community, not what my father's bond was to this community. So, not that there's anything wrong with that, but their bond is just not as strong. So those memories and those connections are not there for them.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: They didn't grow up here, they didn't live here. They just moved here so they just have a very different sense of what this neighborhood is compared to what I have of what it is, what Mrs. Mary Edwards has of it, she grew up and there's very few of the older members that are left. Here. That live in the neighborhood, uhm, in an odd way, my generation sometime I feel we failed, but there are reasons for that. Number one, it was etched into us, you will get your education. You will go to college or you'll go into the military. You're doing one of the two. And for 90 percent of us, we did not own our houses. Everyone rented from Mr. Lee. You could count on your hands the number of people that actually owned their property. So, when we say we're going to go off to school and come back to home, it was home but it wasn't what we owned. So as we went off to college, we moved, we went other places and we didn't have a piece of property to come back to and say this is my house. So we didn't have that, so it kind of balances out but that I find the hardest. To like, you know our parents did it but our parents lived there they didn't go to college they didn't go to the military, this was home this is where they stayed. Uh, but those of us that rented from Mr. Lee during that time, I think most people that live outside of Rosedale probably thought everyone owned their houses, because everyone kept it clean, they kept it neat, everyone was proud of where we lived, but no. Majority of the people did not own their houses, they were renting.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah. Do you know, do you know who they were renting from? Was it somebody...?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Mr. Lee.
SHAE COREY: Mr. Lee.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Afton Lee. He owned most of the houses in this neighborhood.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Mr. Lee uh was wonderful he was great. Accept the house, do whatever you want to do with it, paint in it, fix it up, but he wouldn't go up on your rent. He couldn't do it but you could do it that was fine, but again everyone took pride of what they had and they kept it that way.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, yeah and I think that's a little different when someone in the community is the one that owns it.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, yes and as I said you could just name the number of people whoa actually owned their property.
SHAE COREY: It's Afton Lee, right?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, I'm sorry, Afton Lee Junior, Senior. His father was Damion Lee.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So after Damion Lee was his father.
SHAE COREY: Damion or Dan?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Damion, D-A-M-I-O-N. So, yes.
SHAE COREY: Perfect.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Let's see, other memories, the pool, Spring Park, I remember when the pool opened it was a huge hit.
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Everyone went to the pool.
SHAE COREY: It gets hot here in the summer.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh yeah!
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Woo! Alabama.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh yeah! Yeah, everyone, everyone went to the pool. Because again, we're talking '69, '71, we were not allowed to go to Homewood Central Park. We didn't go there, so we had Spring Park, we had the pool it was always full. We played baseball in the middle of the street. And that was a big thing to do in front of Mrs. Barbara Tubb's house. Uh, but also just wait through we got done hitting the ball we would take their turns and we'd walk to the store, to Bruno's, the grocery store, down where the dance studio is now.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, well that was Bruno's, the Bruno's store.
SHAE COREY: Was Bruno's a grocery store?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Huge. (Laughter) So that's where we went to the grocery store. Go to the grocery store. Take it back home. You could walk there, bring the buggy home, and take the buggy back. Yeah, many a day done that. Bring the buggy back, take the buggy back down to the store. Just what you did.
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, local stores. The local stores, I said Bruno's. The local community stores was E.P. Montgomery's store.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, what was that?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: E.P Montgomery's little store was where you went in and then bought cookies and dill pickles and little sandwiches and yeah that was run by Mr. E.P. Montgomery and in front of Union Baptist Church there was his brother's grocery store, Charlie Montgomery, again where on the point of where that S. A. Walton building is, turn the corner in front of Union Baptist Church and all of that was houses.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: All of that was houses. There was houses facing Union, the other houses faced the pool and there was a little community store there and it was Mr. Charlie Montgomery's store, again you go in and you buy cookies, pickles.
SHAE COREY: Were they related to B.M. Montgomery?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, they were all brothers.
SHAE COREY: Brothers? Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, B.M Montgomery, Charlie Montgomery, E.P. Montgomery, they were all brothers. And on Loveless Street was Charlie Montgomery he had a barber shop and a house. So, underneath was the barber shop he lived above. So those were all brothers. “Fess” Montgomery, well Professor Montgomery, we called him “Fess,” they were all brothers and their sister was Miss Montgomery, she lived, used to be a white house in front of Union which is now gone but that was their sister. That was all the Montgomery's.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And uh Mr. Benson lived up on the hill, the Grangers lived up on the hill. I would say if you just walk, Miss Julia Finley, she ran the kindergarten, which really wasn't kindergarten I think it was just more like a daycare.
SHAE COREY: Like a pre-school kind of?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I would say like pre-school, it was just where you went and stayed there during the day...
SHAE COREY: While your parents worked?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: While your parents worked and they came and got you from. So, Miss Julia Finley was a big part of the neighborhood she was always active in the Homewood City Council. She was always advocating for Rosedale. Uh, so Miss Finley, we had kindergarten at Miss Finley's or at Miss King's. So, there were two. Miss (unclear) King, the people who lived on this side of the street they went to Miss (unclear) King, the people who lived on the side of the street where Union is they went to Miss Finley. So that's kind of.
SHAE COREY: Just because it's closer?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: It's closer, yeah.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: That's just what you did.
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And let's see, uh, as I said the churches, Union Missionary Baptist Church, Bethel A.M.E., Friendship Baptist Church, the Church of God, yeah those are the four.
SHAE COREY: I know we were walking around the neighborhood passing out flyers the other day and we saw a Coptic Church, did that used to be there or?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: No, that building has been there but that used to be the Church of God and Christ's Holiness Church.
SHAE COREY: Okay, okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Which was a black church. But that Coptic Church now, maybe, within the past five to ten years.
SHAE COREY: I was just curious because it seemed a little out of place, in the neighborhood.
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yeah, yeah so now when you're there if you go continue up that street along the car line, we used to live at the end of that street. And that's called a car line, because they said that was the end of the line for the streetcar trolley that used to run through here. So that—
SHAE COREY: Wow. There used to be a streetcar that ran through Rosedale?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: It came all the way down, went all the way down to Edgewood, from around the mountain because that's the way you got around from downtown around the mountain to this side of town, it's considered over the mountain. So—
SHAE COREY: Wait, what happened to it?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh they just stopped it.
SHAE COREY: They just shut it down?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yeah, they just stopped it So, I know my great-aunt told me that the streetcar would run, that was the end of the line for the streetcar. It would run all the way down through Central Avenue, downtown what I consider downtown Homewood now, Edgewood, down the hill.
SHAE COREY: Wow. I didn't know that. That's super cool.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yeah, let's see. Cemetery. I have often heard that's there's a cemetery here in this neighborhood, I don't know where it is.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, I don't know where it would go. Do you know where it would fit into the?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, I, the couple of guys I went to school with used to Mr. Cheryl, Mr. Sheerer now passed, I think it was kind of behind Loveless, oh I'm sorry, B.M. Montgomery Street, uh that way. But I've always heard that there was a cemetery in this neighborhood I just never knew where it was.
SHAE COREY: Hmm. That's super interesting.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, the ball diamond I do not remember the ball diamond, I remember my father speaking about the ball diamond and the ball diamond was where Red Mountain Express is now. That was the ball diamond.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, and they'd play a bunch of different sports there, right?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Well it was just where guys went and played baseball.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: The Golden Nugget Restaurant, as I said my father was a chef there, and uh it closed down when Mr. Harry died, say mid-80s, 80, probably 84 85. Was there anything else that, I don't know who I turn that in to.
SHAE COREY: Oh, yeah perfect.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: It was just a wonderful neighborhood, it was a wonderful, wonderful place to grow up. A lot of memories. And because it was such an old neighborhood and also one of the few neighborhoods for blacks in this area, we always considered it ours. And always very protective of it and very strong minded about it.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, well that's great thank you so much for letting us talk to you.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
25:03
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Anna Marie Smith Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
History Harvest Interview
Description
An account of the resource
Anna Marie Smith recalls her childhood in Rosedale, attending the Rosedale School and the process of integration in 1969; additionally, she describes the various influential figures of the neighborhood. She speaks of the churches, the culture of the community and the changes she has seen within her hometown.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
Birmingham
churches
community
culture
education
encroachment
family history
gentrification
Homewood
houses
neighborhood
religion
Rosedale School
-
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dbd5319fde7abb82cb5f45f0ec4c0c08
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Marlene Burnett Interview
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jonathan Lawson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Marlene Burnett
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
JONATHAN LAWSON: So if you would tell me your name and uh how long you've been in Rosedale?
MARLENE BURNETT: My name is Marlena Burnette, uh I was born here in Rosedale I have moved around quite a bit but I am back permanently since I retired from the workforce, I beeline just straight back home and I love it because this is always and will be home.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So what is it about this area that you love?
MARLENE BURNETT: You know, I guess what I love most, is, is I can tell kids...being a child here I mean I can go back to that part it's because you can actually experience being a child back in the day when I lived here we played from sun up to sun down throughout the whole neighborhood, everybody knew everybody's child, there wasn't a whole lot of watching going on but if I mean it was just, we experienced something then that children can't experience now because there's too much danger. We knew where our boundaries were, where not to go, and we knew uh what it was like when your mama, when somebody said your mama calling you and you knew you better get home and you'd hear it somebody told you and you'd go home. That was it. We just had a real nice village. Of people that cared. Uh now coming back as a retired adult I just like it because it's laid back. My mom and I live together in our home, it's the same home house that my parents purchased back in the 20s.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Wow.
MARLENE BURNETT: And uh my grandfather worked really, really hard on that house to make it what it is today, I believe when he bought it, it was like three rooms and now it's like eight. I mean, you know, it's a nice large house. He completely dug a basement out himself, by himself. And that is, after working he would come home and always put a little work into his home. He made a family house for us and that was his intentions. Because he was always family first, take care of your family. So he always wanted us to have a place to come, to come back to. So that's what I did as an adult, I came back home and its quiet here. Uh, I don't really worry about anything going on and I think that's just what drew me back. You know, it's just home here. Now it's just, what's going to happen is me getting to remember the people that which were children we, when I mean young adults when I left because I been gone so long. But I'm working on that, yes.
(Laughter)
JONATHAN LAWSON: SO along those lines is there a restaurant or a location or somewhere that you remember from when you were younger that you really miss that may not be here anymore?
MARLENE BURNETT: Couple places, actually. That I can, that come off the top of my head is across from this community center, well now actually it's three because this center has evolved into a different center than what it was when I was a child. It's always been in this location but it definitely looked different on the inside.
JONATHAN LAWSON: How so?
MARLENE BURNETT: Oh, we used to, there were windows along this exterior wall that actually those windows that would push out and you'd pull them in and push it down to lock it those kind of things, it was a much smaller court area, that was flipped the other way. Every- I mean this place is definitely larger but I, I remember that center uh especially during the summer because there was always, there were activities for us to do. We did the uh we made potholders, key chains, and what is that stuff you do the molds? You pour the white stuff like the plaster?
JONATHAN LAWSON: Yeah, the plaster of Paris and all that?
MARLENE BURNETT: I think? Yes and you pour it in these little molds and you might have to wait until tomorrow or next day for it to harden up enough. Then you peel it off. I mean you had something you could actually sit out and play and paint, and when we did that along with, with some of these, like making the potholders and key chains was another place right across the street was the playground where they had actually a few picnic tables and a real sand bed that was used. It was awesome and a playground with a swing and a seesaw and your monkey bars and your slides. I remember and I miss that. Because it was, there was something for us to do and there was always activity there, kids laughing and playing and running and carrying on. But when I, that playground also has a memory for me because my great grandmother kept me when I was a child so she could, we could see the playground from our house and if there was someone at the playground that I wanted to go up there she wouldn't let me go, because she thought "oh I'm not going to send you, you might get in trouble". I don't know what it was about it but I would go grandma can I go to the playground and shed look out and oh okay you could go. But it was just like radar, as soon as another kid would come I had to leave, but mostly just good memories about this whole area and you know uh I do miss also the pool at spring park, that was, that was a real treat in the summer you'd go and swim every day and you know just hang out with your friends and it's gone. You know, I mean yeah there's a park you know but my god it's like now you've you got to travel to get to it, you got to pack up to get to it. While like Spring Park, we just had to take our towels our flip flops and be careful crossing that major highway there to go have some fun. You know, so and I miss the little store, there was a little store, the cooks, my neighbors had a little store there you could go and get your chips and your pickles if you wanted, your whole pickles and get little two for a penny candy, cookies, you know, you don't even know a thing about two for a penny cookies. But you go down there with a nickel you got ten cookies, right? And so, but hum, I don't mind change it's just that when you take away some of the things that negatively impact a community and cause kids now need somewhere to run and play safe, I mean all they do now is this with their fingers and by the time they're six or ten they're going to have arthritis in those thumbs. This gave them an outlet for them to do something outside.
JONATHAN LAWSON: I know it's difficult to see when you're that age but looking back what were some of the challenges that you may not have seen at the time that the community faced that you all made it through?
MARLENE BURNETT: Well, I mean the discussions in our household we could hear them. Some of the challenges were voting, just actual, to vote. I can remember being a kid I mean little child and I would go to the polls with my grandparents and my mom. I can remember then making sure everyone had their two dollar poll tax because you had to pay to vote. And so, you know, I'm glad that that's gone, I think that was more of a challenge to them but it instilled in me just what a privilege it is to vote if you had to pay-- two dollars back then was a lot of money hum I've seen, I saw my grandfather make sure everybody in his family had that two dollars, not just in his household but everybody in the family had to have that two dollars. So uh and the other challenges here was just watching how the community changed dynamically with the structure, structurally. You know, I miss some of the wooded areas. It was beautiful, it was nice to see the animals come out of the woods and kind of prance around. Actually, we still have a cat, cats, feral cats that come up and we feed them every day They know when the garage door comes up that it's time to eat but we also before they did all this building with that huge bank that's really sitting in our backyard we had foxes, raccoons, we had the cats of course and they all would eat together, it was the most amazing thing to see. How they would all just wait, that raccoon would just sit down right next to you and I'm not crazy I'm not going to put my hand down there but he would sit there and wait for the food and they all would eat and it was just, it just dawned on me one day that these animals came and sit and eat with each other and we as people can't do anything together without squabbling or trying to get more than your share and this that or the other. But that was, that just put something in my head that was amazing about the animal kingdom other than man. They smarter than us!
(Laughter)
MARLENE BURNETT: You know, they try to survive and they know that they all have to eat and that's what they did so you know. And I know, I think I went off on a tangent. (Laughter)
JONATHAN LAWSON: You know it's funny how God puts things into perspective that way sometimes.
MARLENE BURNETT: Yes, yes!
JONATHAN LAWSON: We were talking about some of the challenges and...
MARLENE BURNETT: Oh, okay.
JONATHAN LAWSON: And how you know you feel like the change is tough but you have to adapt and...
MARLENE BURNETT: Yeah, you know like I said about the pool's gone and they did that before I was an adult or whatever but that highway when they made it bigger, that's just challenging to get across that darn thing, it's like you're risking your life cause you got so many things going on an one time to get across to the other side, there's no cross walk there's no nothing.
JONATHAN LAWSON: What was the community response to that? Was, do you remember, were there groups that formed that tried to fight that, how did that go down?
MARLENE BURNETT: Well, I wasn't here but I do remember the conversation around it within my family and some other people that actually. You know sometimes people don't actually contribute to the cause but they're willing to squabble because it happened. So, yeah, there was some resistance to it. I can remember at one point actually going to a council meeting and it kind of got emotional uh and ask them why, why do you keep disrupting this side of Homewood? Push back the other side a little bit sometimes. Go that way, but you know it's, it's a challenge now, you know, another big one is getting the community to come together, we are so diverse, now, Homewood, uh has changed, or Rosedale has changed dynamically it wasn't all black, African-American I don't know, I don't care what that Vulcan thing says about this nursery man, I've never heard that. First time I've ever heard it, not to say that's not true but a few of us read it and we go hmm don't remember that. Well, uh so just being that kind of dynamic and now the diversity is to include everybody but everybody doesn't think the same and we know we never will but you need to know that your neighbor we need to know what you feel how do you feel when you look around your surroundings don't look like what your used to so let's discuss that. You know and make it so that we can be a community that cares about each other, not just a few people trying to drag the whole load. Because it's only a few, I mean seriously let's just get everybody involved. You know one day you might have your home and the next day just because you aren't paying attention it's gone. Because of something that the city decided they needed to do, but you need to know that. I mean you know it's like pulling teeth, you can't do it if people don't want to participate. They're adults, you can't make me.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So I know you've touched on a little bit, but what is your dream for the next few years for this area what would you love to see happen in this community?
MARLENE BURNETT: Okay what I would love to see happen is for a massive, it's a lot of things, I don't want to call it clean up but we have a lot of vacant properties here, I would like to see it come back to--it'll never be like it was but come back to a community that I would love to just ride through and be like "Oh my God, that looks lovely" and "That looks gorgeous" and everybody is taking care of their properties and it looks good. You know to have some, some accountability of what your stuff is supposed to look like, that's what I would like to see you know it's a beautiful community, because it was it used to be roses everywhere, that's how it got its name. It's gorgeous and I like to see less commercial building, because these, these commercial buildings, they're taking over. And you stick these buildings in the middle of our neighborhood saying, and we're at the tail end of knowing that this is what's about to happen. By the time we know, typically, it's done. It's done. So I would like to see that changed where we-you're given a, a fair opportunity really, a fair opportunity not just say come to the meeting but listen to me if I have an objection to what you want to do. Don't just hear me, listen to what I'm saying. I don't think, I don't think, I think that's, that needs to change. We need somebody that really listens and cares.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Well this is, this has been great. I'll ask you one last question, what do you want the people of Birmingham in general as a whole, what do you want them to know about Rosedale? What is it about this place that is special?
MARLENE BURNETT: What's special is that because we're a small community that we can come together and, and make it, it's safe, make a safe environment for the generations to come. Let's, let's pull them from areas that don't give them the same opportunities to run and play, even though we don't have the playground anymore but just they can be outside and somebody's not going to come snatch them away. You know, come live in Homewood and see the diversity and just in this small area and there's no issues, and if there are issues I don't know about them because I've never heard about them. It's too quiet. It's quiet here, you know and I would have to support that it's quiet because there are certain people who do watch the community, the community watches people that, and they're silent about it but they watch and they know nothing really happens here. So I would say people of Birmingham, just come check it out. And, and see what Homewood or Rosedale has to offer.
(Child in Background)
JONATHAN LAWSON: Thank you so much.
MARLENE BURNETT: Thank you, Jonathan.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
17:08
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Marlene Burnett Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest
Description
An account of the resource
Marlene Burnett describes growing up in Rosedale and living there as an adult. She shares her memories about Spring Park, the Lee Community Center and the Montgomery's store. Marlene also describes her feelings regarding Homewood City Council meetings and issues of encroachment.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
childhood
community
encroachment
gentrification
home
Homewood
houses
neighborhood
Rosedale
-
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5462eaef05e0365f8233c3a1bbbdcd4e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Photographs
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs of the community, neighborhood and Rosedalean individuals generously provided by Rosedale residents.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Photograph
A photograph of an individual, inanimate object or animate object.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
"Old Timers of Lee Community Center"
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest Photographs
Description
An account of the resource
Color photograph of Rosedale residents at Lee Community Center.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Provided by Dennis L. Bush
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1988
community
condolence
family
friendship
Lee Community Center
memory
neighborhood
-
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4b94a38bf90f401afd52cfef3dde3526
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3129e9946bf7fbe96012061464491198
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Artifacts
Description
An account of the resource
Artifacts collected from Rosedale community members.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Legal Document
Papers dealing with the legal affairs of residents or the community.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Deed
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest Documents
Description
An account of the resource
A deed to land in Rosedale from 1906.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Provided by Phyllis Theresa Shepherd
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1906
deed
houses
land use
neighborhood
property
-
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820e574a87ebb946dadd18abf1c9942a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Photographs
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs of the community, neighborhood and Rosedalean individuals generously provided by Rosedale residents.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Photograph
A photograph of an individual, inanimate object or animate object.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Fannie Ellis, Gertrude Mencer and Hattie White in Bethel A.M.E Church, 1963
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest Photograph
Description
An account of the resource
Fannie Ellis, Gertrude Mencer and Hattie White in Bethel A.M.E Church in 1963. Gertrude Mencer was an educator and was taught by Booker T. Washington at the Tuskegee Institute.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Provided by Marlene Burnett, originally owned by the Shepherd family
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1963
1963
Alabama
Bethel A.M.E
Christianity
church
community
family
friendship
neighborhood
relatives
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Photographs
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs of the community, neighborhood and Rosedalean individuals generously provided by Rosedale residents.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Photograph
A photograph of an individual, inanimate object or animate object.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Monroe & Elmira Shepherd, 1927
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest Photograph
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph of Monroe and Elmira Shepherd taken in 1927 after they settled in Rosedale to make a home for their family.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Originally owned by Monroe and Elmira Shepherd, the photograph was provided by Marlene Burnett.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1927
1920s
culture
Elmira Shepherd
family
marriage
Monroe Shepherd
neighborhood
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Artifacts
Description
An account of the resource
Artifacts collected from Rosedale community members.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Physical Object
An inanimate, three-dimensional object or substance. Note that digital representations of, or surrogates for, these objects should use Moving Image, Still Image, Text or one of the other types.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Facts About Our School In Rosedale Booklet
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest Document
Description
An account of the resource
Booklet created to describe and detail the history of the Rosedale School from the period 1895-1969.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Provided by Thomas Hamner Junior
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Approximately 1969-1970
B.M Montgomery
Clarence Ray
community history
education
facts
High School
information
integration
Loveless Street
Mamie L. Foster
neighborhood
principal
Rosedale School
school history
segregation
students
teachers