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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Sound
A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
0:55
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Alma Mater
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Rosedale High School's Alma Mater recorded at the 2019 Rosedale High Reunion at the Homewood Senior Citizen's Center.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Recorded with permission from Rosedale High School members.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
June 28, 2019
Alabama
Alma Mater
High School
Homewood
memory
Rosedale
Rosedale School
segregation
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Shae Corey, Annalise DeVries
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Frances Jones
Location
The location of the interview
Interviewee's Home
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
SHAE COREY: So today is July 12, 2019 and this is Shae Corey and Dr. Annalise DeVries interviewing Miss Frances Jones, so just our first questions are always the really easy ones. So, where were you born?
FRANCES JONES: Actually, I was born, as far as I can remember, I'd say I was born at Hillman Hospital, but the only real home I knew when I was growing up was up on the hill, on the same street, 25th Court.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, now I can remember a while back that I lived in Titusville, for a little while on first street but it was three--well I was there I guess a long while time, because I went to Washington School. And I was like in the third grade when I came back over here. And they put me back in the first because I was still six years old!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: So, I feel like I've been going to school all my life, you know.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
FRANCES JONES: But yeah, this, this Rosedale is my memory, my childhood memory.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, so what do you remember about being a child in Rosedale?
FRANCES JONES: Well, the thing, the nice thing about being here was that everybody was watching everybody. Because my neighbor that used to live across the street was, would tell me when I got older that one day, I had my purse in my hand and I was—I had gotten down the hill and she asked me, “Where was I going?” And I told her I was going to town, so she knew, you know, everybody knew everybody so she knew that was not what I needed to be doing so you know, that way, it was a closeness that nobody could actually get hurt or lost because everybody was watching everybody, you know, that was the, the good part and we were kind of, I guess you could say country, because they had cows and chickens and you know, I would watch my grandmother sitting out on the back and she'd wring the chicken's neck, oh you know, that kind of stuff.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
FRANCES JONES: But, eventually as it began to grow, and Rosedale joined with Homewood, and it became the beautiful city of Homewood.
SHAE COREY: So, do you remember when it joined with Homewood?
FRANCES JONES: I can remember uh, but not actually, I was old enough to remember but you know during that time they didn't talk to children you know and tell the children, or sit around and listen to adults talk, uh you can remember when these things happened by things that changed. But not necessarily, you know, knowing the events and stuff like that.
SHAE COREY: What type of things changed when that switch happened?
FRANCES JONES: Well, actually, they started fixing the streets. We had wood stoves, when I was young, we had wood stoves.
SHAE COREY: Really?
FRANCES JONES: We had uhm, outside toilets, and a few people had indoor toilets, but you know the majority of people did have outdoor toilets and all that kind of, I guess with the water lines and the gas lines they started uhm paving the streets, because where we lived on top of the hill there were big boulders. You couldn't drive up there, you could barely walk. When we had company, they would have to park right down here and walk up the street.
SHAE COREY: Are you serious?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah and we had—now the mailman couldn't come up here. So, the next street down, 25th Terrace, we had to get a neighbor there to use that address to get our mail.
SHAE COREY: Really?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, I can remember that because I could remember they would send me down and it was the-it was a brick house, the brick house right down here the second brick house, well it was seventeen—I can't remember seventeen—I can't remember what it was, isn't that terrible? But it was—no it was sixteen something I can't remember. But they would get our mail down there and they would send me down there, you know to go pick it up, come bring it back sometimes.
SHAE COREY: And you'd have to go get it?
FRANCES JONES: That was one of my chores.
SHAE COREY: One of your chores?
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: What other chores did you have to do?
FRANCES JONES: I actually had to do a lot of stuff like getting the wood, coal, because I was an only child.
SHAE COREY: Oh really?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, so my mother taught me how to do everything. She did not spoil me. The only thing I can say she spoiled me to the point where I didn't have to ask for anything. She would go shopping and whatever the lady's style was, that's what I got, you know. I never had to say, I want--well I did ask for a bicycle but that was a no-no. Since these hills and things...
SHAE COREY: Oh, because you would've fallen off?
FRANCES JONES: Mhm, and I was such a daring child.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: And she said, "No, you aren’t going to get a bicycle," because I was on 18th place and my cousins they lived down there and my, I was doing something, and I rode the bicycle and I was looking like, "Look ma, no hands!" And she said, "Oh no, you are never getting a bicycle."
SHAE COREY: You are never getting a bicycle!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Never going to get a bicycle, so that was the end of that. And I knew not to ask anymore, when she said no, firmly, that was it.
SHAE COREY: That was it.
FRANCES JONES: Mhm. Yup.
SHAE COREY: So, what did she teach you to do?
FRANCES JONES : I learned to iron, actually to cook, I didn't cook as much then as once we got the gas stove but when we had the wood stove I didn't have to cook that much, we lived with my grandmother, my auntie lived downstairs and so it was just a whole bunch of family and I didn't have to cook that much then but after I got married and my mom decided oh she's just going to get another house and we going to live with her, so that's what happened. Then we moved down on 25th Terrace, yeah.
SHAE COREY: Yes. So, what do you remember about your mom? Like what was she like?
FRANCES JONES: My mom was, my mom was funny. My mom was really funny. I got a picture--let me see this picture. She was a funny, funny lady. She was always telling jokes, always really really happy. This is her and my cousin.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
FRANCES JONES: And she would keep, a pocket, she would keep her nutty buddies--she loved nutty buddies, she would keep those in her apron pockets.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: So, every time one of the children knew where they were, so they'd just go on up and take them. But she was always joking, happy, and then when she got Alzheimer’s, it was, she was a completely different person and that was--if you've ever had to deal with an Alzheimer’s person, it's, it's really hard. It’s hard. But she was, she was a sweet lady.
SHAE COREY: She's pretty.
FRANCES JONES: She was really sweet. I wish I knew where my grandmother's pictures were, but I don’t, if I find them, I'll call.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, just give me a call.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: I have no idea, my son took my album book on home and was looking through it I know he brought it back, but I don't know where he put it. Because once I had the stroke, it was kind of, they have about that blood clot going to my head it affected some of the, my hearing and but it's not as bad as it could have been, thank god. You know? But sometimes, I can't comprehend you know and other times I'm doing fine. So, that's just I just have to learn to deal with it. I want to drive so bad!
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: That's what your granddaughter was telling me! She said, "My grandma just wants to drive."
FRANCES JONES: I want to drive, because I've been so independent! You know, being an only child, I had to do everything for myself by myself. So, when I want to do something, I want to do it right then, you know, so if I want to go cook something, I want to go to the store and get something I don't have, I got to wait and ask somebody to do it and wait until they take their time to do it. You know? I'm just so used to just getting in my car, going to Piggly Wiggly getting what I want and coming back.
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Yeah. When did you learn to drive?
FRANCES JONES: Actually, I did not learn to drive until my, uh my husband taught me how to drive. That was terrible. We would fuss every day, "I am never going to get in that car again!" And it was like—but yeah, I did, but they were paving the streets at the time that I was learning to drive.
SHAE COREY: Oh, my goodness!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Yup. But we didn't have a car, I don't think we got a car until my son—my youngest son was maybe five or six years old, but we did not have a car. When I was young, we went to church in Titusville, so we had to get on the bus down the high way and we'd go get off on Sixth Avenue and walk down and catch the bus, and go you know, to Titusville. And that was like day and night church, day and night. Sunday day and Sunday night, we would do that. And it was just a routine for me! And that's how I learned the make and models of cars. Because we would, when we were standing on the bus line, every car that passed, I'd say "Daddy, what kind of car is that?" And he would tell me, and all and then I grew up just loving cars. If I miss a car show, that's like—
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: I have really missed…you see, I didn't get to go to the last car show.
SHAE COREY: Oh no!
FRANCES JONES: But you see that was my love of cars, he taught me the love of cars.
SHAE COREY: And that was your stepdad?
FRANCES JONES: Mhm, but he was like my dad. He was like my dad.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. And what was he like?
FRANCES JONES: He was really nice, laidback, he was so laidback. My mom was just the complete opposite. And he would say, she'd say uh, “Rutley!" she called him Rutley, "I am the boss!" And he would say, he’d say, "Yeah, Mallie but I'm the superintendent!"
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: They would do stuff like that! You know, they were so comical together.
SHAE COREY: Oh, I love that. That's so funny.
FRANCES JONES: It was funny.
SHAE COREY: So, what did he do, like for a job?
FRANCES JONES: He worked at a lumber company. He worked at a lumber company right over in uhm, Avondale, right off the railroad track. It was Jenkins Lumber Company, I'll never forget that. He would come home every day with splinters in his foot, I could not figure out, how did he get splinters in his foot?
SHAE COREY: Oh my goodness. In his foot, yeah?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah. But I'd have to take the splinters out until I taught my youngest son how to get the splinters out. But I'd have to take the splinters out of his foot, but you know it was just something enjoyable, I mean it was just something you were doing for your parents that you knew, it was just a good time, it didn't feel like a chore to me it just felt like I was doing something for him, you know.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
FRANCES JONES: But yeah.
SHAE COREY: Did you ever figure out why he got splinters in his feet?
FRANCES JONES: No, never could. And then, he would bring chips home, lumber home, when they cut it you know spare lumber, he would bring it home and we'd use it for wood. So, when I'd come home from school, and I would see lumber all up the street I'd be like, "Oh Daddy been here."
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Because it fell off the truck, you know just little blocks like this, you know. But it was uh, my childhood to me, was just such a pleasure. It was really, we would get, and see we would go up in Homewood to the store and stuff and I never forget my mom told me, "Don't go anywhere, because I got to go downtown and pay some bills. And I haven't done your hair, or anything so don't go anywhere." And my cousin next door convinced me to go up there with her. Well, I, my mom got back home she already knew. She already know I had gone because she said somebody stopped her and said, "I saw Frances Jean and she looked worse--I never seen her look like that before!" Because my hair wasn't combed yet!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: And so, I mean that's the kind of neighborhood we were! And there weren't any telephones, well everybody didn't have telephones and you didn't want to use telephones because you had that four-line party line and you know, you knew your ring was the long ring or the short ring. But then you had to, you could pick up the phone and hear somebody talking and you could listen on to that conversation.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: So, you didn't really use the telephone, you just visit across the fence, you know. Stuff like that. But yeah, it was a very pleasant, I mean Homewood was the place to be. It was really nice, it was--we had no problems, no, you know, you could just sit anything outside. I mean we had a banister and you couldn't see but it was like brick all the way around the porch and we would lay out at night, because we didn't have an air conditioning and we would lay out at night on the floor until we got sleepy enough, and then we'd go in our house and go to bed, because once you get sleepy, you going to go to sleep once you cold, but yeah it was great.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah.
FRANCES JONES: It was really great.
SHAE COREY: And I know, we talked a little bit uhm at the reunion about how it was more wooded around here, right?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah.
SHAE COREY: What was that like?
FRANCES JONES: It was nice, because on Sundays that was like our thing to do. The street, at the end of this street, you can see the houses that come out Valleydale Avenue, and all that was woods, even Valley Hill apartments, all that was woods, I was pregnant with my oldest daughter and my bedroom window was I could look out, and I could lay in my bed and look out the window and see them building, and hear them saying "Snakes! Snakes!" Like you know they'd blow up a tree or something and then be like, they’d say, "Snake pits!" or something like that.
SHAE COREY: Oh, that sounds terrifying.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Yeah and we would walk in the, during, on Sunday evenings, we'd walk through the woods and they had a rock quarry there and I don't know what they did with it but we would walk through there and they had persimmon trees and we'd walk through and pull the persimmons off the trees and at Christmas time we would cut down our tree and make our Christmas tree. Yup. We didn't have to buy Christmas—they weren't even selling Christmas trees there were so many woods around! Yeah, we had one lady lived right where State Farm is, and they had a big white house sitting right there. Rosedale went a long ways then.
SHAE COREY: It was a lot bigger?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, up and down. We had people down by the park and all down in there on the other side of Loveless Street, all of that yeah, black people were living in that area. And all the way down the highway it was houses, you know.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. When did you first start to notice like that kind of change?
FRANCES JONES: After they, after our ballpark was where the freeway is now, right next to like Shades Valley. And that's when it seemed to start changing, then, they put the freeway in and started buying some of the houses that were down at the end of it. And closing the street car, you know that kind of stuff. You know we would leave the school and we had a path where we would walk down, and we could go to where the ball park was. Houses was all over in there. Yeah. So that was the beginning of the, the change, and then people started dying and their families were moving, and they were selling and just, again, you know people leave you know and not have family and selling for taxes and start building. Yup. But all on the other side of the highway, all the way up to—where, I'm thinking of something, you know where Soho is, all that was black neighborhood all the way up to there. Yeah. So, we were huge, and all the way on the other side of the highway. All of that. All the way up to where the school is. All the way up to where Piggly Wiggly is now. So yeah, very large neighborhood. We still didn't have a lot a lot of children, but the, we were the county school, Parker was the city school so all the kids from the county like Mason City, Oxmoor, Leeds, Mason City—you know all those area kids came to Rosedale.
SHAE COREY: The Rosedale School. And did you go to the Rosedale School for every grade?
FRANCES JONES: Hmm?
SHAE COREY: Did you go to the Rosedale School for every grade?
FRANCES JONES: Yes, from first grade, mhm, in fact our class was the first first grade to go in the school because we were in churches. So, they, and we've had schools to burn down in separate, you know in different--you know areas. So, when they built that one up there out of rocks, I was, our class, when they left the school, our class was the first to go into the new school.
SHAE COREY: Do you remember when the schools burned down?
FRANCES JONES: No, I don't remember. Because they had one on Loveless Street and all that, I don't remember those, but I do remember when I was first grade we went and came back to Rosedale, I had to go to school in one of the churches.
SHAE COREY: Okay. And then you went to the rock school?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, went to there and stayed there the rest of the time.
SHAE COREY: What was that experience like for you?
FRANCES JONES: Oh, it was great! It was great and most of our teachers, were uh, a lot of our teachers lived in Rosedale, so you, you couldn't do anything wrong, me and my big mouth, I could always find a reason. I was, one of my teachers, she lived right there, Maple, where Jim n Nicks is now? And she was, it was raining, and we couldn't go outside. So, she decided we would let everybody tell jokes and stuff. So, I get up and I said, and she was chubby, she wasn't fat, but she was, and I’m like, "Well what's the difference between an orchestra and a big fat lady?" And nobody knew, and I said, " An orchestra draws a crowd and a big fat lady crowds her drawers." Now, I'm in school.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: I mean it was, I mean I was that kind of child, you know whatever came up came out.
SHAE COREY: Oh, my goodness.
FRANCES JONES: But when I came home my momma already knew this.
SHAE COREY: Oh, my goodness.
FRANCES JONES: But yeah, we had good times, we had good times.
SHAE COREY: Who was your favorite teacher?
FRANCES JONES: Uh, I don't know. I liked all my teachers. I really did. I liked all my teachers I didn't have one I did not like, now the kids when I got grown say I was a teacher's pet. I was, I guess maybe they said that because I would, I didn't have anybody to distract me, so I had to find something to keep me you know occupied. So, I would even get the newspaper and turn it upside down and read it, it was such a challenge, read it upside down. You know, that's the kind of, you know during the summertime my grandmother’s children she had, her daughter and her son lived in Youngstown So, he would always send, her son would always send his children here during the summer. So, I did have some company during the summer but then they went back, you know. Yeah. But I would, they would say I was a teacher's pet. But when I was—one of our teachers lived in Oxmoor and she would ride the school bus, and if the school bus was late, I had to teach the class!
(Phone rings)
FRANCES JONES: Excuse me. Hello? Hey, I tried to call you earlier, but listen I'm talking to the young ladies from Samford, okay. I'll talk to you later, bye. That's Barbara. We talk to each other every morning. Every morning.
SHAE COREY: Aw! She's so funny.
FRANCES JONES: She don't get up until 10 o'clock so I called her this morning and she didn’t answer.
SHAE COREY: Did you guys go to school together?
FRANCES JONES: I was a year ahead of her. Yeah. But our classes was really close, we had recess at the same time. So, we would go up and play ball against each other. Stuff like—I mean they would even let us, we would take, because you know girls didn't wear pants to school, so, oh no. You wore clothes, you wore dresses.
SHAE COREY: Everyday?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah! But now, they would let us bring our pants to school because we wanted to play tackle football.
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: You played tackle football? What?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah! My neighbors, all the neighbors around here were like boys, and this house right here used to be a field. I would come down and if I hadn’t come down, they would call me say "Come on, let's play football." And I played tackle football out with the boys.
SHAE COREY: I love that.
FRANCES JONES: So, they would let us bring our pants to school and we would play football.
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Oh, that's funny. What else did you guys do at school that you remember? Like what are your favorite memories from going to school there?
FRANCES JONES: Hmm?
SHAE COREY: What are your favorite memories from going to school there?
FRANCES JONES: It was just a fun time, we did, you know we had little different stuff, we had a football team, we had a boy’s basketball team, but we didn't have a girl’s basketball team, you know stuff like that. But we had that recess and we would just enjoy ourselves. Our teachers were really strict, you had to get the, you had to get your lesson and they were mostly, Rosedale was a good school, it was, most of the teachers had their degrees and uh the A-rated school, accredited and we had to do, oh I was so glad when I got out of sixth grade, you know we used to have to do the writing with the O's and the push and they would make us write and they would send our writing off and it was called a Palmer or something and get it graded. Palmer or something I can't remember this, but I remember Palmer, they'd send it off and they would grade our writing. Send it back to us.
SHAE COREY: That's scary.
FRANCES JONES: So. It was, it was interesting! It was.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: A lot of stuff they did then well they don't do now, you know, we had truant officers that came in you know, if the child wasn't at school a certain day they would come in and check on them and everything.
SHAE COREY: Oh really?
FRANCES JONES: Oh yeah, uh-huh. And we had one truant officer, she was, she was so strict. She scared, she had that, gave you that scary feeling that if you don't go to school you going to be in trouble, you know?
SHAE COREY: Yeah!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: It was just her demeanor she wasn't mean or anything, but it was like she said what she meant, and she meant what she said. Yup, but it was, it was good times. And I look back now and I'm like man, we were really, we were really blessed. Because now, you say anything to anybody's children, they might cuss you out. You don't know.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: So, you grew up in the house that, that was just up this street and who all was in—who all lived in that house with you?
FRANCES JONES: Uh, my grandmother and uh my aunt, now the house across the street they've torn down the house that we lived in, but the house across the street my auntie built that house.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Oh, okay.
FRANCES JONES: But, before she built that house she lived downstairs because she had been married and got a divorce, so she lived in the basement we had two bath, two rooms in the basement. She lived in the basement, but she came up the steps to the kitchen you know upstairs so we were really all together but my aunt she had two children, and my mother and grandmother and my mother and my dad and I and my grandmother lived upstairs.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: And you lived there until you got married?
FRANCES JONES: Mhm. Yup.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: So, did you get married after High School?
FRANCES JONES: I got married, actually I got married, yeah right, pretty much, yeah.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Did you meet in Rosedale? Or did you meet in school?
FRANCES JONES: No. He went to Ullman, and uh my cousin was going with his brother. We never—we talked on the telephone until maybe two years until we knew what we looked like. I would go to church, pass his house because he lived right there on sixth avenue across from where (unclear) is now, he lived right there on sixth avenue and when I would have to pass there, so I would get out the window and I would kind of wave at him, wave and he'd be playing ball in the street, I'd wave at him. But yeah, we talked to each other on the telephone for maybe two or three years until we actually—you know.
SHAE COREY: Before you met in person?
FRANCES JONES: Mhm. But I knew his brother, because my cousin, my cousin was like maybe three years older than I.
SHAE COREY: What happened when you met in person?
FRANCES JONES: Well, you know, you’d just, he'd just come over and sit on the front porch. You know, then you had date nights you couldn't go, oh you couldn't go to a girl's house, it had to be, was it Sundays and Wednesdays? It was something like that, but—
SHAE COREY: What?
FRANCES JONES: No! If my mother caught me calling somebody—
SHAE COREY: There were specific days?
FRANCES JONES: On the telephone?
SHAE COREY: You'd get in trouble?
FRANCES JONES: Oh yeah!
SHAE COREY: So, it was only on Sundays and Wednesdays? That you could go out?
FRANCES JONES: Yup. I'm not sure it was Wednesday but I know it was Sunday and another day during the week.
SHAE COREY: And what would you guys do? For your date, just talk?
FRANCES JONES: We'd just sit down and talk, that's all.
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: You wouldn't go anywhere?
FRANCES JONES: If you wanted to sneak a kiss, you can, you have to sneak!
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: You got to be sneaky about it? That's so funny. And what year did you guys get married?
FRANCES JONES: We got married in ‘53, ‘54? ‘53 I believe. We actually got married before because I got pregnant, so I got out of school and we got married. ‘53, I think it was ‘53 and he graduated that year.
SHAE COREY: And where did you guys live?
FRANCES JONES: Hmm?
SHAE COREY: Where did you live?
FRANCES JONES: I lived with my mother in the house right there, right downhill on 25th Terrace right down the corner, that house, they've made it a single house now, but it was double house and then after that we moved to that white house across the street. And we stayed there until we bought this house, so there's only two streets I've lived in in Rosedale!
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: And what did he do?
FRANCES JONES: What?
SHAE COREY: What did he do for a job?
FRANCES JONES: Oh, he worked at a furniture store.
SHAE COREY: Oh!
FRANCES JONES: He worked at a, it was a, right down sixth avenue, right down the street from his mom, it was a, a sale furniture store he sold used and new furniture. And he learned how to, it taught him how to refinish furniture, stuff like that. Made him get his driver's license, because he did not want to drive he hated to drive. That's why I got my driver's license so quick because I knew he didn't, he didn't—my husband was the type of person that he could sit here and be by himself he didn't have to see another person, it was fine with him and see and I was the complete opposite. You know, but so. I had to get myself, I'm going to have to learn how to drive. That's what I did.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: What was his name?
FRANCES JONES: Hmm?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: What was his name?
FRANCES JONES: Albert.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Albert.
FRANCES JONES: And my no—I had three children and I got pregnant with the fourth one I had two girls and a boy and then I was just so sure that I wouldn't have another boy I promised him, I would name the child after him, because I'm just so sure it's going to be a girl, and he end up being a boy!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: So, I had to name him Albert Junior, and he didn't have a middle name and my son he never goes by Albert, he uses Al. That's it. Nobody actually knows his name is Albert. Unless I, I say it, you know tell them or something.
SHAE COREY: And did all of your kids go to the Rosedale School?
FRANCES JONES: They did—no—my oldest daughter, when they changed—closed the school, my oldest daughter was in the eleventh grade, she went to Shades Valley. My next daughter went to, that's when they had the school, your choice you could go where you wanted to go, she went to Shades—she went to Homewood Middle School, and my youngest child went to—well my daughter and my oldest son they went to middle school and my son he was in the third grade when they closed Rosedale so he went to Shades Cahaba.
SHAE COREY: How did you feel when the school closed?
FRANCES JONES: It was kind of sad, but you know. It had to happen, it just had to happen. But they had a hard time. My, well my daughter, my youngest daughter had a real hard time. Because she had this, she had long hair, but she wanted to wear an afro, so she began to clip it shorter and shorter, she had a big one, still big but it wasn't, you know. And they was having this hard time with not being able to wear your hair natural and it was like—it was, it was terrible.
SHAE COREY: They couldn't—wait what, they couldn't wear their hair natural?
FRANCES JONES: They couldn't wear their hair, they didn't want them to wear the afro. But this was their natural hair.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
FRANCES JONES: So, they went through some changes but eventually it got better. It got better.
(Telephone rings)
FRANCES JONES: Why! If I'm here by myself, nobody calls me! Okay, I'm tied up. Yeah, huh? What you need? Oh no, they here now doing the interview. Okay, bye. That's my daughter. "I was just calling to see if you want me to take you to the bank." I like to get a printout now, because there was a time when I first had my stroke, someone got my debit card and took out 700 dollars.
SHAE COREY: No.
FRANCES JONES: And I kept getting these things, and I couldn't see and my children ain’t thought to look at my card, my account I had a hard time trying to get my money back because they were saying, you know how the bank says that you have to report it in so many days, well I didn't know that then and I didn't know so. I finally end up getting it back, but I'm just so cautious now like I go get a print out every time.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Good.
FRANCES JONES: I make sure I look at it and make sure nothing's going on. But yeah.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: So how long have you been in this house?
FRANCES JONES: I've lived in this house, uhm...hmm...since ‘80? I think I want to say somewhere in the 80s, yeah because my daughter had not too long, she was a Birmingham police officer, right after she became a police officer, we got this house so. So, they are retired now, thank goodness. I had two children that, two children that were police officers my son's wife was a police officer, my daughter's husband was a police officer—so everybody's retired now because it's just gotten terrible now. It's gotten terrible, for sure, you know. But yup.
SHAE COREY: So, uhm how many of the Rosedale Reunions have you been to?
FRANCES JONES: I've been to all of them, I don't know, I can't remember how many we've had but I've, I’ve pretty much gone to all of them.
SHAE COREY: Did they start right after the school closed or kind of when did they start up?
FRANCES JONES: You know what, I can't remember, whether it was before or—I think it was before they closed the school because I can remember us going up there and taking pictures, you know, outside the school. But they don't let us do that now.
SHAE COREY: Who?
FRANCES JONES: You know the board of education sold it to the uh—
SHAE COREY: Oh, it's a Muslim School now, mhm.
FRANCES JONES: Muslims? They used to—I don't know if they still have their services up there or not, because at one time they had the speakers and they were so loud, so I actually could sit in here and hear it and I guess they got a lot of complaints on that because eventually, eventually it stopped but.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Oh, I bet.
SHAE COREY: The call to prayer? Is that what it was? Yeah, that's loud.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: If they were doing the call to prayer, yeah. And now most of the services are all in Hoover. That's where most of them--
SHAE COREY: The Hoover Crescent is there?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Mhm, it's a Muslim (? I hear church). So, I don’t know what all goes on down here now.
SHAE COREY: It's a school?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: It's a school, mhm.
FRANCES JONES: You know, and something about a school being up on a hill, you know it would be easy for it to, to we actually on the same street, the only thing that’s separating us is the highway.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Mhm, right.
FRANCES JONES: But I don't hear it anymore, so I guess. My daughter was, my daughter was, my granddaughter was dating one of the Muslims, he would go up there and he started telling us about you know things that they would—he was saying men had to go but women didn't—they could go but they weren't required. He was, he was telling us.
SHAE COREY: So, I know, your daughter—does your daughter still live here with you?
FRANCES JONES: My daughter, yeah.
SHAE COREY: And how many grandkids do you have?
FRANCES JONES: Oh, Lord.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: I, I, my children, my, my daughter, oldest daughter has two, my other daughter has two, my son has, oldest son has two, youngest son has three, but I think I got more great-grands, I got more great-grands and more great-great-grands. Yeah, I know.
SHAE COREY: That's a lot of kids.
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, my great-granddaughter, one of my granddaughter—is she my granddaughter or my great-granddaughter, I can't even keep up—my granddaughter, uh she had twins and she, she had a third baby and the twins wasn't a year old—I know, what'd they call them, those twins I can't remember now. But anyway, she's had, she's still having a hard time because you know one, I think the twins were born in September, oh no they were born in August and the other one was born in September. So, they all the same age, for that one month.
SHAE COREY: Wow, that's stressful to even think about.
FRANCES JONES: Oh, I see, I told her I said, “I don't see how you do it honey.”
ANNALISE DEVRIES: I would cry.
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
FRANCES JONES: You'd have to have a lot of discipline, oh my gosh I just can't imagine. But she seems to be handling—she was here for the fourth of July she seems to be handling it okay.
SHAE COREY: Did the fireworks go off over your house?
FRANCES JONES: Mhm, you see I sit here, I can’t sit in here and watch them because I had to close that porch, but excuse me, but I can sit on the porch and now before Homewood start having that street thing down there, I think they had it like two years, I think this was the second, but we don't have a crowd up here like we used to. We used to crowds all over the place you couldn't even get in or out, it was so packed but now it's much better since they go down there and have the thing and everything, much better.
SHAE COREY: So, did your other kids, you have four kids and your daughter lives with you, did your other three kids move away? Like where did they—
FRANCES JONES: Oh no they still here in Birmingham.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
FRANCES JONES: I have one son that works at Alabama Power, the retired police officer he was a, he did the part time, you know how they have police in there and they gave him the job, after, when he retired and my other son lives at, my other daughter lives up the street, she lives up the hill and my oldest, my youngest son lives in Chelsea, he lives in (?) but he's getting ready to build, he got his house up for sale so he's getting ready to build a house in the country in Chelsea, I said "Oh, it's country for sure in Chelsea because they don't have street lights."
SHAE COREY: Wow.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: I say, because he wanted to move out somewhere where he could uh, he likes to work on cars and he has about six or seven cars, might be more now but he even have cars up in his garage, so he wanted to have somewhere where he could have a house and then have a garage big enough to hold all the cars. So, he moved to, he moved to Chelsea.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
FRANCES JONES: And my granddaughter, my little granddaughter, like she’s, Branah, I want to say she's ten or eleven, somewhere in there. I might be off a little bit, but she likes to cook, so she makes cakes and they take them to church one Sunday and after church she have a bake sale and she sells out all of them, all her stuff, mhm. Yup.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: So how—this is to go back to church—how long did you keep going to church in Titusville and did you start, did you eventually start going to church here in Rosedale or?
FRANCES JONES: Nope, still go over there, still go over there the only difference is we got a bigger church, uh do you go out that way? By (unclear) anytime?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Not recently.
FRANCES JONES: Oh, okay, okay because we right there, you know where that McDonald’s is, right across, we are right behind that McDonalds.
SHAE COREY: What's the name of the church?
FRANCES JONES: Woodland Park Church of Christ. Been there all my life, we have a choral group and they keep saying, "Well when are you going to come back?" I said, "I don't think I'm going to come back."
SHAE COREY: Did you sing in the choir?
FRANCES JONES: We don't have a choir we sing congregational, but we have a choral group.
SHAE COREY: Ah, okay.
FRANCES JONES: And we kind of perform like if something special going on—like on the third Sunday in March we have Friends and Family Day and we invite people we might sing while they are getting the food prepared and all that, downtown we might sing while they're doing that or sometimes another church is having something going on they might invite us to sing, or something. But I told them I don't even know whether I can carry a note too long!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: They talk about, "We going to get you a chair, and you're going to sit right here." I said, "Oh, yeah right."
SHAE COREY: Get a spotlight for you!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Oh yeah. But uh it's, I mean it's like they are just so sweet. When I got sick, oh I got a, I still got a bag full of cards right there that I haven't been able to see the address and write thank you cards that they sent me and all, preparing the food. We have a, a zone, our church has a zone because we have grown and for people to interact with each other, so we separate in zones like the South Zone, people that live in the South part and they get together periodically and socialize together and my, the man that is over our zone, he, he cooked me a meal—salmon. With his own recipe, it was so good, but you know how expensive salmon is.
SHAE COREY: Yeah
FRANCES JONES: He brought that to me, I mean a full meal, him and his wife and then we had another guy he used to live in Rosedale, he fixed a huge dinner and brought it over here, we had more food than we could even eat, you know! But you know you just hear about it, it's just so sweet it's just so nice. And the girl come in, and she say, “Well, you know it's because you were real nice,” but you know I sew for everybody in the church because I don't charge a fortune. I don't, I mean I charge, because people say "You just don't charge enough" but I'm like—you know this is my God-given talent, my mom sewed and I was watching her and her telling me little tips, I start sewing and I like sewing complicated stuff like wedding dresses and bridesmaid dresses and stuff.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
FRANCES JONES: Mhm so I feel like if this is my God-given talent, I don't think I should be charging a fortune, for hemming somebody's pants—or you know?
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
FRANCES JONES: I just, I just don't see it that way. And they say, “Well you just don't charge enough,” and this girl, last week was saying, "Frances you know, we sure miss you,” because we--somebody--they took that skirt to have it taken up, she said "She charged me a fortune and she still didn't do it right!"
SHAE COREY: Aw!
FRANCES JONES: Well I said, "Take it back! Take it back! Take it back to her, make her do it right."
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Did you work as a tailor out of your home, or did you?
FRANCES JONES: I just sew at home.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: At home.
FRANCES JONES: I got my sewing machine, just, I bought a brand-new suit before I had the stroke it was my daughter's birthday, I bought the suit, I bought her a suit and I saw one I liked, and I bought it for myself. Well, uh, this was in September, and I had the stroke and I don't know when, but it was on her birthday I realized something was wrong. I have never been able to have the suit on because the skirt, and I lost weight so the skirt was too big, and—
BOY: Hey grandma!
FRANCES JONES: Hey—
BOY: Aw, crap, my bad.
FRANCES JONES: You can come through!
(Door slams)
FRANCES JONES: But I have not been able to wear it, because it's too big. And you know, my son said "Well, I'm going to come over with my sewing machine, and you can show me how, how I can take it up for you." But that hasn't happened. He doesn’t have time, he tries to do so much. So, I just got it hanging in the closet. So, I—but I wish I could sew a little bit and I could take up my new suit a little bit to wear it. Yup. But those were the good old days.
(Scuffling)
FRANCES JONES: Say hello! He going to pretend he's shy.
(Little boy yelling)
FRANCES JONES: Stop running!
SHAE COREY: He's so cute.
FRANCES JONES: He a mess.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: My daughter's almost three.
FRANCES JONES: Is she? Is that the only one?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Uh, I only have the one, thus far.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Well you got to have another one.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Yeah, she needs a, she needs a friend. She needs a little buddy. She says she wants a little brother named Graham.
FRANCES JONES: She already named him?
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: She already has him named!
FRANCES JONES: That's cute!
ANNALISE DEVRIES: She has a friend who's got a little brother named Graham, so she wants to have the same thing.
(People walking through house)
SHAE COREY: Hi!
(People meeting, various introductions/ talking)
SHAE COREY: He's so funny, he's like a little tornado.
FRANCES JONES: Oh, he a mess. He wears a shirt everyday with writing on it so I say, “What your shirt say today,” sometimes he'll hold it out so I can read it. Today, I asked him—hey Jordan, Jordan, come here. So silly. I said, “What your shirt says,” and I forgot what he said he says it say, "Friends For-e-veer" and I say, “Okay it's got F-A-M it looks more like it would be family to me.”
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: I guess it says whatever he wants it to say that day.
FRANCES JONES: But they are sweetie pies.
SHAE COREY: Well I guess I probably just have one more question. What are your hopes for this community, what would you love to see in Rosedale?
FRANCES JONES: Oh okay. I would love to see it kind of remain, I don't want to stay down, but to remain the same—a neighborhood. I, and I feel like if they sold, if they would be able to get this property, I feel like it would end up being a gated community, you know? That's, that’s what I'm feeling like, I just wish we could get that warmness back that we had and knowing your neighbors and being able to stand out and talk to them and you know—just to know where they're coming from, you know? Because that's the way we do it, that's what we do at church, like we used to live here, we—the only thing I don't like about our church now is that we have a front door and a back door, the front door where you pull in and you be out of the weather, you know you getting out the car. But a lot of people go out the back door, a lot of people go out the front, and you know they've been at church because you've seen them sitting there but you don't get to fellowship, you know like we used to, everybody talk to everybody and all, but that's just, that’s the way it was in our neighborhood, you know, everybody, and when somebody died I mean you know everybody, they didn't have to buy—you wouldn’t have to cook food for maybe two or three weeks because they brought you so much stuff, you know, it was just a lot closeness and you could come over here and not know but one person, and you could stop down there on that highway, used to be a lot of boys would congregate down there but you could just say, "Do you know where such and such live?" And they could take you directly to them, because everybody knew everybody, you know. But you can't do that anymore.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
FRANCES JONES: Now we got to worry about rabbits and stuff. We have to worry about the rabbits and stuff, oh it's terrible.
SHAE COREY: What rabbits?
FRANCES JONES: You know we got a lot of Mexicans around, right?
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
FRANCES JONES: So, they got out the rabbits and they let them run around like they dogs, just, they all be all up under my driveway, up under my daughter's car.
SHAE COREY: Hmm. That's so interesting.
FRANCES JONES: And her car, it got full of fleas, and I guess they were coming out from the underside.
SHAE COREY: That's interesting. I did not even…
FRANCES JONES: It's just, it's just terrible. It’s just terrible. It is, it’s terrible. And the guy down the street, had a dog on a long leash tore down my fence, over there, back there. I know so when my daughter had called about the rabbits and she was trying to go over there and he uh, he must have thought about the dog and the fence because they wouldn't even come to the door. You know how the police will put the siren on and let them know they out there, and they wouldn't come to the door for him, but all their cars were there so, but I noticed that they started putting my fence back up and put the dog on a shorter leash. So, they must have thought that I had called them about the dogs, but they weren't there for that no way, you know. It helped a little bit.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
FRANCES JONES: But I mean, you know, stuff like that, and they're not, they're not very friendly at all. And I say, well I wish they would be a little more friendlier, but they look at you like, "Why are you invading my neighborhood?" You know, like we're the wrong ones to be here!
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: So, I just, I just wave anyway whether they wave or not, just go along.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Do you think part of that might be language?
FRANCES JONES: Hmm?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Do you think part of that might be language?
FRANCES JONES: I don't—I don't know, now I know the, the women seems to be a little less friendlier than the men because I know they'll be out and they'll wave back, but the ladies won't do that. So, I don't know what, I don't know, I don’t know what it is.
SHAE COREY: It might just be a cultural thing.
FRANCES JONES: It could be, it could be—but I just feel, you know not everybody feel like I feel, so everybody's not going to think like I do, but I just feel like if I walked into a neighborhood that's not familiar for me, I would be trying to at least talk to my neighbors, you know. And I wouldn't be standoffish, unless they gave me the impression that they don't want to be bothered, but they you know, they get together with each other, because they have little, like on the weekends they have their tents up cooking their food and they'll all be over, so you know, I guess most of them know each other so I guess that's enough for them. They only communicate between themselves, you know, which is fine. I'm just saying, that's, you know, it just seems to me that if it would be a lot easier if they would, you know, would just kind of communicate with us, and you're right, I hadn't thought about that they might not speak English well enough to, I don't know. I don’t know.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Yeah, it would be challenging.
FRANCES JONES: Hmm?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: It would be challenging.
FRANCES JONES: It is.
SHAE COREY: This is kind of a random question, but do you remember, uh like the Civil Rights Movement in Birmingham?
FRANCES JONES: The what?
SHAE COREY: The Civil Rights Movement, in Birmingham—
FRANCES JONES: Mhm.
SHAE COREY: What do you remember about that?
FRANCES JONES: Well, I know that they were doing the, uh, the uh putting the hose on them down at the park, you know and my husband was down that way, and he was saying they were putting the hoses on people… my husband grew up on the South Side, which you know was kind of a rough neighborhood, they always feared the police, and he just didn't want no part of it, he just kind of you know, scratched it out, but I was pregnant with my youngest child, so I wasn't that involved with it as I ordinarily would have been. Yeah, it was terrible. It was, it was terrible. They boycotted the stores and that type of thing.
SHAE COREY: They did what to the stores?
FRANCES JONES: They didn't buy anything, the black people didn't buy anything in downtown Birmingham.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Boycott.
SHAE COREY: Oh, okay.
FRANCES JONES: They, they you know Montgomery did that whole bus thing like that, yeah. But they stopped. Just to me, it seemed so unnecessary. To have to go through that. You know, it just, you know.
SHAE COREY: Were a lot of people from Rosedale involved, in those movements?
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, they had, they had some of the kids from the school would, you know go down and march, you know stuff like that. But like I said, I wasn't, I didn’t, I wasn't involved with it. Because I would think my son was, he was born in ‘61, I think that was, I think I was pregnant when most of that, when most of it was going on.
SHAE COREY: Well those are all my questions. Do you have any other questions?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: I don't think so, not right now.
FRANCES JONES: I wish we had had some pictures of Rosedale, so you could see what it was like, you know? Because a lot of these vacant lots were houses. You know, all kinds of stuff. And all the way down this street, you know, if I walk to the end of the street I'd be at the Board of Education.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Okay, okay.
FRANCES JONES: Uh-huh, I’d be at the Board of Education parking lot. But there was a road you could walk, that's how we came back and forth to school. But nobody has used it so, and the houses were down there. So once the houses, people moved out of them, that the weeds just took over and now nobody actually uses it anymore. And there was a bridge you could drive across—
SHAE COREY: Really?
FRANCES JONES: Mhm, but then they tore that down, you know instead of repairing it for you to drive again, they just repaired it for walking it wasn't for driving.
SHAE COREY: Do you remember the streetcar?
FRANCES JONES: Oh yeah!
SHAE COREY: Did you ride it?
FRANCES JONES: Oh yeah.
SHAE COREY: What? I still like can't imagine a street car being up here.
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, the streetcar used to this road, if you go down this road, the streetcar was right there and you know where the uh, I cannot think of what is down there now, there was a vegetable place right down there by the car, you know what I'm talking about it's, I’m trying to think of what’s down there, I haven't been going anywhere in so long, it's just before you get down to the light, you know the light just down there when you're coming down the hill, the streetcar came down that road, right in front of Barbara's house.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
FRANCES JONES: The streetcar went right, directly in front of Barbara's house, and down Central Avenue and turned and went down Oxmoor Road and turned and went down Edgewood, isn't that Edgewood?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Yeah and Broadway, right? Because they renovated the road on Broadway and uncovered the track.
FRANCES JONES: Oh yeah, that little track, yeah, remembrance, I guess.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Yup. But yeah, we used to catch that streetcar and then they had the trolley cars, after the street cars, they had trolley cars.
SHAE COREY: Huh.
FRANCES JONES: They were like a bus except they had a wire.
SHAE COREY: Oh, okay.
FRANCES JONES: The trolley thing they went on.
SHAE COREY: Gotcha. And do you remember what spring park looked like before they like made the pool?
FRANCES JONES: Uh, yeah it was a park. But they called it Spring Park, the neighborhood men made it a park and they called it spring park because there are natural springs. So, when they put that swimming pool there, that was, they put it in the wrong place because of those natural springs and they couldn't get that water, keep that water from leaking so that's when they closed the pool down, and yeah.
SHAE COREY: Okay. So, did you ever go swimming in the natural springs before they put the pool in or was it like shallow?
FRANCES JONES: No, it was almost like a ditch, but you could tell it was natural springs because the water, it would never get dry it was always wet, like the house that I've got, I had down there, we had to have had a spring up under there because it was never dry. My children had to play mostly on the backside of the yard because you couldn't play on the front part, because it was constantly, anybody could come in and we had a man who used to come dig up worms, because it was so moist all the time, always moist and that was why they called it Spring Park.
SHAE COREY: Because I know--
FRANCES JONES: It was a park that, it was the Rosedale area, when the men, when they built Rosedale they worked together, now there were, my yard has a pecan tree in it, the house next door has a magnolia tree, the house next to that has a pecan tree, so it's like when they built it, every other house has one or the other.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, so it's almost like they planned it that, that way, like they got together and planned it. To do it like that.
SHAE COREY: Because I know Miss Pope was telling me that they used to have baptisms in Spring Park.
FRANCES JONES: Hmm?
SHAE COREY: Miss Pope told me that they used to have baptisms, in Spring Park?
FRANCES JONES: yeah, oh they did. You know she knows more about it because she went to Baptist church and I didn’t, yeah but it used to be deeper than it is now, because my kids go down there and get dig tadpoles and stuff, and that one in there, she used to be a ringleader.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Yeah, they used to go look for tadpoles and then they put the swimming pool there and it worked for a while but after it was just so expensive, I guess they just decided not to do it. But I can't think about, my daughter had the family thing for Homewood Park, but I can't go, because I'm not immediate family—now I'm her mother? I'm like, what do they—I don't get it. I have to pay more, I have to have an extra pass, or I can't go.
SHAE COREY: Interesting.
FRANCES JONES: But I haven’t had time to do none of that stuff now, but now that I will I'll just have to try to get involved in something.
SHAE COREY: Well, is there anything else that you would like to share about Rosedale?
FRANCES JONES: Well, I can’t think of anything. I probably will when you leave.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, I can always come back.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Yeah.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Well, I think that's pretty much, that was pretty much it, yeah. It was fun times, you know. Because I, I did crazy stuff too because my dad used to pick me up and bring me up the hill. We would get off of the streetcar down here, and he would bring me up the hill because I would pretend, I was asleep, and he'd have to bring me up the street. So, one day I just winked my eyes at my mom, you know, but that was the end of my ride up the hill!
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: He didn't pick you up anymore?
FRANCES JONES: I had to walk from then on, because my mom gave me away. Yeah. When I think about the things that— (Telephone rings) What in the world? I think about the things I did. I'll have to call you back, bye. All the crazy stuff, I used to do was funny. You know you get in to so much stuff when you have nothing else to do with yourself, you have to find something mischievous to get into. My grandmother had, she got up early in the morning, you get up early you are wondering where she was, she was across the street, in the field and she'd have peanuts and potatoes in the backyard we had a plum tree, apple tree, pear tree, she even had a grape vine.
SHAE COREY: Oh, my goodness.
FRANCES JONES: Yup. We didn't have to buy none of that stuff from the store, and the peaches and I mean all that, that backyard, that big plum tree yellow plums. My cousin, we would sit, my grandmother would be sitting on the front porch and my cousin, one of us—we'd take turns, and we would sit out there and try to carry on conversation with her and keep her busy while we climb down the hill and go through the alley here and try to get some plums, pull some plums off, because she didn't want you to get them off the tree, you had to wait until they fall on the ground, so we were trying to keep her company, so she wouldn't see it and we'd go pull some off the branches, but that never worked either—I think she was kind of on to us.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, she knew what you were doing.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Uh-huh! She was a, she was a lady, funny lady she was. I mean, (unclear), she never when she got sick, she was just, they said she was just from old age the marrow in her bones had dried up he said, and the last words she said before she died was, "Is that Laura?" Her daughter had come in because she knew she was sick, and she said uh, because I had gone to work, and they said she wanted to know, is that, was that Laura. She took another breath and died. Mhm. She was a strong lady, she was a strong lady. Drank her sweet water. She drank water all day, but she had to put sugar in it. That's the way she drank her water, with a little sugar in it. And you had to get it right, so you, you had to know how to do it because she'd say "Ah, go in there and get me, go get me some sweet water." And when she, she loved watermelons. She would buy like, the watermelon man used to come around and she would buy like maybe four watermelons, so that's one for her and one for everybody else, and she ate all that watermelon by herself and everybody else got to share a watermelon.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: She was a mess, but you know, being that family atmosphere like that, it was a good thing because you had the closeness too, it was a good thing. Yup, yup. And I'm thankful for it. Mm. I'm sipping on this orange juice because my lips get, it's almost like I never had chapped lips but I'm imagining it's like having chapped lips, it gets numb and it's just like you know my feet and my—it's only on my left side but it feels like you know, when you go to sleep, your feet go to sleep, that's how it feels. So, I have to try to keep something to keep me from being too dry. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It isn’t no fun thing.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: You seem to be doing really well.
FRANCES JONES: Hmm?
ANNALISE DEVRIES: You seem to be doing well.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
FRANCES JONES: Well, I'm pushing myself a little more than maybe I should, you know but I refuse to lay in the bed and just lay down, I'm not going to do that. But, for the, on the weekend, on the fourth of July, I was so blurry I didn't, I had gone to, we had the reunion and when we finished with the reunion, and I cooked for the reunion, did you come to the reunion?
SHAE COREY: Yes.
FRANCES JONES: Because Barbara and I cooked. Did all the cooking, I, then after that we had one of our church members had cancer and he was going to the cancer treatments in Georgia and when he had his last treatment, his daughter and son got together and the church, we took the church bus, as many people that wanted to go we got on the bus, some people drove and we got on the bus, when he came out, you know when they have their last treatment, they go out and they ring a bell, so when he came out to ring the bell, we were all in there.
SHAE COREY: Aw.
FRANCES JONES: So it was a fun, you know it was a fun thing and everything but then I did that right after the reunion and after that the fourth of July came up and I went out on the deck with that and then I came and I was seeing those, you know, they’re not aluminum, I don’t know what you call them but those sheets that you put on the grill you put your meat on them, well you know I took it out in the yard, and I don't get hot but I took it out in the yard and got the broom and kind of just got all the grease off of it and I didn't realize that I probably overheated, but I don't feel, I don't get that hot so I was just, the week after that I was just, I was just crazy. And I said you just need to stop. I'm trying to tell myself, but I felt like I could do it I was trying to tell myself, well you always cold so I'm out there, I didn’t, I went on the side of the house where the sun wasn't shining, but I don't feel heat, I didn't feel hot I didn't sweat or anything and then I was reading an article in, in and it might have been on the cell phone and it was saying that there is a part of your brains that regulates your body heat and I didn't realize that so I was like oh okay.
SHAE COREY: The brain does a lot of stuff.
FRANCES JONES: Exactly. And that's why I can't understand why we don't get as much information about strokes.
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Yeah, right.
FRANCES JONES: As we, you know as we should, because that's a brain disease. And I mean, all my life it was like even when I was having babies, when I was at the exam they were like "Did you know you have an abnormal heart beat?" And I was like, “Well yeah, that's what I've been told.” Every time I went to the doctor, they would say it, but nobody said you need to go to a heart doctor and get this checked, nobody ever—so I'm thinking oh I've got an abnormal heart beat but it's alright. And when I had the stroke, then they said, “Oh you know when your heart when it beats four times and then it stops, when it stops and your blood's just sitting there, then it forms the blood clots.” So, I'm like okay, thank you very much. You know? So, you know, when people tell you something like that, I tell everybody now, when people tell you something like that to you, you need to go check it for yourself. If you're thinking that your doctor will, but then you're realizing that he's got so many patients that I mean he's not. He's not a miracle worker, he can't remember all the stuff that everybody needs, so you just kind of have to check it for yourself, because I should have, I should have. So many people saying that but I'm just thinking when they say that, okay, it's going to be alright. And then when I had the stroke, I didn't know what symptoms was. I had no idea, just got up one morning, went to bed and I got up the next morning and it was like, I feel funny walking but I still didn't, that was during my granddaughter was up here celebrating my daughter's birthday and I felt a little off, but not really that bad, and I think it was on a Saturday or Sunday I got up and I was feeling like when I walk, I felt like I was going to black out in pain, and my daughter say, “You want me to call the paramedics?” and I say "Oh, if you want to." And then when I went to the hospital and they did that little brain thing, she said, “Oh you didn't have a stroke,” and my doctor was on vacation and out of town and when he came back, he said we going to go and get you a cat scan?
SHAE COREY: MRI?
FRANCES JONES: MRI, it wasn't a—I can't remember anyway he said that’s going to show everything, and then that's when they found out that I did have a stroke. So, my stroke had gone untreated for maybe a couple of weeks. But I feel blessed that I'm not dragging anything, that I don't have a speech problem or, you know...
ANNALISE DEVRIES: Yeah, yeah. Right.
FRANCES JONES: I feel blessed, really blessed for that. Sometimes I get confused on what I've done, I put stuff down, I put stuff down and I'm like "Where did I put it?" and sometimes it might be right there. You know, and it was there but for some reason I couldn't focus on it. You know, but.
SHAE COREY: If it makes you feel better, that happens to me too.
FRANCES JONES: Hmm.
SHAE COREY: I lose stuff all the time, I have no idea where it is.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: Well, you know what I did some time? My son, they had Mr. Lee's store was on the other side of the highway, and they had a mailbox sitting right there. So, I was going to pick up my husband from work, so I had all the children in the car. And by the light being red, I told Ronald, would you run and jump out put this letter in the mailbox, and then, uh you know well the light changed. Well, when the light changed, I pulled on out.
(Laughter)
FRANCES JONES: There was a service station right up there on the hill, I was going to the service station to get the gas, and I heard something behind me, I had the windows down, (breathing noises), he done run up to the car! He came from down there, from up that little hill, you know it's a slight hill, and I forgot my child! I said, “Well, at least we in Homewood, he knew where he lived.” I forgot, now I said that's bad when you're that forgetful.
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Forgets a kid.
FRANCES JONES: And I think Ronald was maybe 10 years old. I don't know, somewhere in there.
SHAE COREY: Well do you mind if I take a picture of this?
FRANCES JONES: Oh no, you're welcome to!
SHAE COREY: Alright, I'll just turn this off.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
1 hour 15 minutes
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Frances Jones Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale Oral History
Description
An account of the resource
Frances Jones narrates her childhood experiences in Rosedale, describing her family, friends and home life. She discusses her time at the Rosedale School, some of her teachers and playing tackle football with the boys in the neighborhood. Mrs. Jones also speaks of her husband, her children and living in Rosedale today.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
July 12, 2019
Alabama
children
church
civil rights
family
High School
Homewood
integration
marriage
Rosedale
Rosedale School
segregation
-
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e78b928fc0f13cdba282493f4c526ad6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Artifacts
Description
An account of the resource
Artifacts collected from Rosedale community members.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Funeral Pamphlet for Mrs. Laura Scott Howze
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale Artifact
Description
An account of the resource
Pamphlet handed out at the funeral of Mrs. Laura Scott Howze, detailing the eulogistic service proceedings.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Generously provided by Frances Jones.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
February 26, 1967
-
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f643e258574d13e0e5a70bc7456473c0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Photographs
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs of the community, neighborhood and Rosedalean individuals generously provided by Rosedale residents.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Photograph
A photograph of an individual, inanimate object or animate object.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jones Family Photograph
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Graciously provided by Frances Jones.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale Photograph
Description
An account of the resource
Mallie Jones holds Sonyan Beverly Moss Jones in her lap.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Unknown
-
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cd093b029c03e6fc3cb5c3a701816432
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Shae Corey
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Madolyn Jones Wyatt
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center, Rosedale Alabama
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
SHAE COREY: Alright, so if you wouldn't mind telling us your name?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: It's Madolyn, it was, during the time I was at school it was Jones, Madolyn Jones.
SHAE COREY: Okay. Uhm, so you grew up in Rosedale?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Right.
SHAE COREY: How long did you live here?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: All my life.
SHAE COREY: Wow!
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Yes.
SHAE COREY: So you said you were, you went to the Rosedale High School?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Mhm, well it was like elementary and...You know...
SHAE COREY: And high school?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Yeah.
SHAE COREY: All, all the grades?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Yeah. It was uh, K through...
SHAE COREY: Twelfth.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Twelfth, yeah.
SHAE COREY: And, did you go, you said K through tenth grade?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Uh, I stopped, well they closed it, and you know, desegregation?
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: When I was in the tenth grade.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: So, when I was promoted to the eleventh grade we had to go to Shades Valley.
SHAE COREY: Okay, how was that experience for you?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Not good. (Laughter). Not good. I didn't like school anyway, but I hated it because you know they kind of divided us all up--so like you didn't have any of your friends in the class you were just like the only black person in one class, you know...
SHAE COREY: Really?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: So it was kind of difficult to start out.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, so were black students the minority then at, Shades...
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Valley.
SHAE COREY: Valley.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Yes, yes, yes very much so. Very much so. But I, started, well most of the, most of the kids that grew up in Rosedale, some of them still live here. Some of them still live in Rosedale.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, yeah.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: But we went from the first grade to the tenth grade all in the same class, you know, we got graduate, we move from one class to the next. You know, and all of us stayed in the same class so we knew each other from you know age 6 until you know we were teenagers.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, mhm. Are you still friends with a lot of these people?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: A lot of them, yes. A lot of them. In fact, one of your volunteers here is, was in my class. I mean one of them doing the food and stuff.
SHAE COREY: Really?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Here today, yeah, was in my class then.
SHAE COREY: Wow, that's so cool. So what do you remember about the Rosedale School, like what was your favorite part about going there?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: I think, it was the, it was exciting, like I said you know we knew each other so it was like every year you got to be with the same people you got to be with the year before and it was like growing up, we were like a family because you knew everybody. And it was kind of, we had a May Day thing, every year where you dressed up in the little costumes, every class had their own little costume, and you'd be doing your own little dance or whatever.
SHAE COREY: That's so fun! (Laughter)
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: And in sixth grade, you got to plait the May Pole. But they stopped doing it by the time we got to the sixth grade. (Laughter) So we didn't get to do it!
SHAE COREY: Oh man, you didn't get to do it!
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: No, no! And then when we were in Elementary School, we had to stay on the first floor, so you kind of looked forward to getting older and moving to the second floor and the third floor, whatever you know. So, we were looking forward to that you know.
SHAE COREY: Yeah!
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: And that, that was a fun thing, to, to look forward to that.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, so what was your favorite part about growing up in Rosedale like outside of the school, talking about a family, did you feel super connected to everyone in the neighborhood or?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Yeah everybody knew everybody, everybody knew, you knew, and everybody's house, I mean, you could tell where everybody' lived, I mean you know, okay this person lived in this house, this person lives here, and if you did anything wrong by the time you got home, my mother would be standing in the yard, waiting. Because somebody had already called her. So you got into trouble because the neighbor would get you in trouble. I mean, we, we, you know the neighbor would holler at you or whatever and then when you got home...
SHAE COREY: Yeah! (Laughter) You got yelled at twice, yeah you got in trouble twice.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: (Laughter) Yeah, yeah!
SHAE COREY: That's so funny, do you remember any like specific stories about that or just like anything you did, you feel like you couldn't get away with anything.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Well, I was a good child, so...
SHAE COREY: Mhm. "I was perfect!"
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: (Laughter) I didn't really get in trouble like that.
SHAE COREY: That's funny. What did you do after you graduated?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: I was married right after high school, so you know, just not really anything spectacular (laughter).
SHAE COREY: Mhm, yeah. So do you still live in, you still live in Rosedale?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Mhm, after I got married and well divorced, I moved back to Rosedale.
SHAE COREY: Wow. So you moved back--well how do--
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: So I've been here maybe about twenty years.
SHAE COREY: Wow, how do you feel like it's changed like since from when you grew up?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: I don't know anybody anymore.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: I mean, there's a few people that are still here. There's a few houses that are still the same. But a lot of houses are torn down or they're abandoned. And because the people that was older, that, that, the older parents uh that built the houses and stuff their kids have moved on to different places and either sold their houses or their houses are just standing and being abandoned so it's changed. I don't really know anybody anymore, that much in the neighborhood. There are still some people, some families there but there are a lot of people I don't know. Like say there used to be a time I knew everybody in the neighborhood but it's not like that anymore.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, I know the Rosedale Reunion summer is this summer, right?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Yes.
SHAE COREY: Are you excited about it? Are you going to go?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Uh, yeah. Well, I, my brother is the president so.
SHAE COREY: Really!
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: So it's kind of like, I have to.
SHAE COREY: You got to go. (Laughter)
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Yeah. (Laughter). My mother was president for a long time so.
SHAE COREY: Have you been before?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Oh yeah. I go every year.
SHAE COREY: What are they like?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Uh, they have the banquet. Where you get to see people you haven't seen for a while and picnic so it's fun.
SHAE COREY: It's fun. So I know that one other thing I want to ask you about is we talk a lot about the different businesses that have popped up and the loss of like houses and different things like that, how do you feel about that going on in Rosedale, like does that make you sad or do you kind of, how do you feel about..?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Well, I think it's kind of, it's kind of taken over the neighborhood. You know and it's not as, as, like I said it used to be like family oriented and it's not like that anymore.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, mhm. Yeah.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: You know, it's like more uh commercial you know and it seem like it shrinking every year. You know, it's just eating up a little bit at a time, little bit at a time.
SHAE COREY: Yeah we were walking around giving out flyers the other day, me and Robbie. And, I think--yeah, okay you looked familiar!
(Laughter)
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Right!
SHAE COREY: And I was like--I feel like I saw you, but we were just shocked by like we were, one step and you're in like a business district.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Right, right.
SHAE COREY: And so that was even upsetting to us we were like, "What!" So. Yeah.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: So you saw the empty lots?
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: And the houses? Yeah, it used to be houses all up and down that street.
SHAE COREY: Really?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Mhm, I was on the top of the hill where you came up.
SHAE COREY: Yeah!
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Yeah, because I met you at the mailbox.
SHAE COREY: Yes ma'am. Perfect.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Is he here?
SHAE COREY: Yes! He is, right there.
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: Okay, oh okay. Yeah, okay, okay. Yeah, I remember you now.
SHAE COREY: Yeah!
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: But you had your hair up.
SHAE COREY: Yes! I was probably a little sweatier too, it was hot. But...
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: That's my sister.
SHAE COREY: Hi! Well, that was perfect. Is there anything else that you want to share about Rosedale or...?
MADOLYN JONES WYATT: No. Did you want, to talk? She, she, she ask you questions. I mean, she make it easy for you. She makes it easy.
(Laughter)
(Background noise, speaking)
SHAE COREY: We have plenty of time. Yeah.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
8:12
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Madolyn Jones Wyatt Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest, Rosedale Memories
Description
An account of the resource
Madolyn Jones Wyatt discusses her attendance at Rosedale High School and her experience with integration in the tenth grade. She also recounts her childhood in Rosedale, the atmosphere of the community and changes in Rosedale culture.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
Birmingham
busing
civil rights
education
Homewood
integration
Rosedale School
segregation
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46085/archive/files/c6288924eada01c9b1214d53eb5cd70d.WAV?Expires=1712793600&Signature=Q8GKV5lA4Z9SQUAuleaYXEJ2xcD-2YN7b-xrX31%7EoBvsoanO%7EzIclprBBeOdGLttDEqXNCGyKRCpwVJe0lUrgZW2xTELTCEKYAyxVSYFVZYqfoQ26HZKvldPUrwxJMlyUkp%7EDmbLh5KUnvgVyLX9JvZchKaf6kV1h-I5dKLG1HKgMGcTsaMggtEBicqQnAFy4V1P4PxJtoMrspy4fMEEmXuIEv9X8ji-fZbcXIJoWKvuJjeL68CCIR5dm4AEeDXjJ6QZBrDuPFY%7EYn7BpAVJPNXe3DfYSaufimyOYXVp008Ffc%7EexrjrLAetlf4a84b5YHO70akCFad9Gbeh90mktA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
caa4441770aaa1bf4240fa30ee5e8f1f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Shae Corey
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Phyllis Theresa Shepherd
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center, Rosedale Alabama
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
SHAE COREY: So, if you wouldn’t mind starting just saying your name…
PHYLLIS SHEPHERD: Phyllis Theresa Shepherd.
SHAE COREY: Perfect, and have you lived in Rosedale your whole life or…how long have you lived here?
PTS: Well, I was actually a visitor, my grandparents, both sets of grandparents lived here and they lived across the street from each other.
SHAE COREY: Really?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: My maternal grandparents uhm lived on 25th Court and my paternal grandparents on 19th Street South.
SHAE COREY: Wow and so did both of your parents grow up here?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: They did.
SHAE COREY: And where did they live after they moved, did they move away from Rosedale, or?
PTS: They did when they married. Uhm, when my parents married in February 1957, they moved to the Woodlawn area of Birmingham, that was more or less their first residence as newlyweds. They roomed with an elderly lady uh and they only stayed there maybe barely a year. And then they moved to the Titusville area of Birmingham.
SHAE COREY: Wow, so did you grow up there?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yes.
SHAE COREY: But you came and visited here to see your grandparents?
PTS: I sure did.
SHAE COREY: So, what did they tell you about Rosedale, like your parents and your grandparents?
PTS: They really, they you know always spoke about you know the good times, the fact that it was a traditional neighborhood. Uh it was a neighborhood in which uhm black people were very affluent, uh they had, many of them had their own businesses, and it was a—it was just really a very tight-knit community uh everyone knew everybody. Uh adults could chastise anybody’s child if they were doing wrong, that kind of thing. It was sort of like a community you’d see on T.V. like The Waltons or something.
SHAE COREY: Mhm! (Laughter) Yeah.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm.
SHAE COREY: So, do you go to church in Rosedale or…
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yes.
SHAE COREY: What church do you go to?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: I go to Bethel A.M.E. Church on Mamie L. Foster’s 18th Place South uh and the street in recent times and uh the latter part of the twentieth century was named for educator Mamie Labon Foster.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, who was she? So, I’ve heard a little bit about B.M. Montgomery, I believe, but I don’t think I know anything about her specifically.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yes, mhm. Miss Foster was a uh, she, she was an educator and she was also I think a member on the Homewood City Council at one time.
SHAE COREY: Oh, wow.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: So, she was, she is very well known, very prominent. Later years, of course, she ended up I think uhm living with her niece in California.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: When she couldn’t, you know, take care of herself anymore.
SHAE COREY: Mhm. So, did your grandparents, or your parents ever talk about, like any problems within Rosedale? Or…anything like that?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Very few, I, I didn’t hear. You know there’s no place or no sense of people that are perfect but uh the problems to me were minimal. Not like now.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: They didn’t have the levels of violence within the community like now. No. Even, even uh, African-American white relations were different. As opposed to Birmingham. Uh when my father was growing up uh the police used to watch little black boys and white boys play football. There in the field for example. There was, however, surely discriminations as far as schools. They attended Rosedale High, which was all black. And of course, the white kids went to Shades Valley, Shades Cahaba. At the time, Shades Cahaba was actually a high school. Now it’s an elementary school. But uh, just in general, kids had a tendency to play together, believe it or not. Mhm.
(Microphone crackling)
SHAE COREY: The black and white students?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm, yeah. In some of the neighborhoods, yeah at least I know that dad mentioned about the boys playing football, mhm.
SHAE COREY: Well—wow… so you mentioned that your grandmother was 105?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: 105, that’s my paternal grandmother.
SHAE COREY: And she lived here her whole life?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: She did.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: She moved here 19—around 1933. She actually was born in Barbour county in Eufala. Mhm.
SHAE COREY: Interesting.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: So, I guess—that, she would’ve moved here I guess when she was about 23, 24 years old.
SHAE COREY: Mhm. So, did your parents and your grandparents talk a lot about Rosedale as uhm like did they ever talk about the changes in the community after uhm the end of segregation or anything like that?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm. I would say mostly it would seem like they were losing uh a whole on the, so to speak, on the land, on the property. It seemed like it was slowly eroding away, people were selling out. Uh, land wasn’t necessarily being just taken or anything without compensation, people were just selling out. Uh, I don’t know sometimes when people see money they’ve never seen before…
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Some people have never seen fifty, twenty-five, even twenty-five thousand dollars at one time.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: They’ve seen it on paper, in figures, but that’s it.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, that makes sense.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm, and so they just, they sell out and this is why you have the, the freeway you have because there were houses all down that way.
SHAE COREY: Mhm! What was, what do you think, if your grandmother was still here, what do you think she would say was her favorite part about growing up in Rosedale, or something that she just loved about this community?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: I would think she probably would’ve said there was more love, everybody was close.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Uhm, you could be, you know that was the thing, it was the type of environment where a neighbor could borrow a cup of sugar, a cup of flour—maybe adults could be out talking across the fence, so to speak and somebody could tell a child, “Baby, go in the house, go in my house and, and check on those peas that were on the stove and turn them off.” Uh, people didn’t lock their doors.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: People as a whole, they uhm slept on the porch if they wanted to when it was hot yeah during the summer because they had screened-in porches, lot of people did.
SHAE COREY: People used to sleep on the porch? And keep their doors unlocked? (Laughter)
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yeah. People, people didn’t bother them back then. They just didn’t bother folks.
SHAE COREY: So, I know earlier you mentioned different types of violence in Rosedale, now. Like what types of violence?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm. I think even now, I, I still think this is a low crime area. Even, I really do. This is low crime as opposed to where I am in the Birmingham area unfortunately where it looks like every time you turn on Fox 6 it’s who got killed last night. It’s, it’s a different culture. Different feeling. It’s just different now.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah. I think everywhere is a little different, now, probably.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: It is, and I think it’s upbringing. That’s another thing, you know like I was mentioning earlier, uh you know adults could chastise other people’s children. And what would happen, and it was like that somewhat when I was growing up even in Birmingham. You didn’t bring shame to your family. So, yeah you were hoping word didn’t get out that Miss Brown or, or, or Mr. White had to say something to you. You were hoping it didn’t get back to your parents you know, yeah.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. A different culture of honor, I guess.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: That’s true! That is so true, mhm.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. That’s very interesting. Well, is there anything else that…
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: I can’t think of a whole lot, but it just to me was so unique knowing that my maternal grandparents lived here on 25th Court and my paternal grandparents were on 19th Street, they of course, were neighbors they knew each other. My parents were five years, had a five-year difference in age. So, quite naturally they wouldn’t have socialized as kids because it made a difference. Dad was graduating high school and he went to the Korea conflict. He did enlist in the air force. And mom was back here in school, in high school. So, it made a difference. Yeah.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. So, did they meet when he came back from the air force, did he come back to Rosedale or?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yeah. Yeah, he did for a while, because they married in ’57 and I was born during that time. So yeah, they hooked up so to speak.
SHAE COREY: (Laughter)
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: It was interesting.
SHAE COREY: That’s funny that they lived right across the street from each other and didn’t know.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Yeah. They didn’t—you know, they knew each other and all but, you know it’s, it’s different if a girl is five and uh, a boy is ten. You know, that kind of thing they have different classmates, different everything, yeah. Different friends.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. But they still fell in love!
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: I’m telling you.
(Laughter)
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Still, it’s been really interesting. You know, we miss dad. Dad passed away in ’17. So, it’s been one of those things. Adjustments, adjustments. Yeah. That’s him on the screen over there.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. Oh, really, he got interviewed too?
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm, he was interviewed three times.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: It was a part one two and three. My grandmother’s on there too somewhere. They’re all on YouTube. And two other old Rosedale residents too. Miss Doris Cunningham, and Miss Mary Edwards, was yeah, mhm.
SHAE COREY: Cool. Well it’s kind of cool that you got to be interviewed too! Get your whole family.
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: Mhm. Yeah! Well it’s been enjoyable, it’s very nice what they have set up for you all. And this is a good project for you in school.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, absolutely well thank you so much for—
PHYLLIS T. SHEPHERD: You’re welcome.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
9:50
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Phyllis Theresa Shepherd Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest, Rosedale Memories
Description
An account of the resource
Phyllis Theresa Shepherd describes her numerous visits to Rosedale to see her two sets of grandparents, who lived across the street from one another. She speaks of her time within the community, the churches in the neighborhood and the changes she has seen in past years.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
Birmingham
community
family
generations
home
Homewood Alabama
neighborhood
Rosedale
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46085/archive/files/f1071923a035118d88c150ee070a2254.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=QtsCzOdJ5MkzpkpVrxDKpG7WIf1-JKBESjLnqs6p54E%7E58zOamH1vxj3oAwrhBbEd23lab8Isr7qVEntOiWEKaXX5cdiGsiRLLJS5w%7El0fWNAy%7E7abJhaRXedN11-ERAYz6XKAcqmXfs1BVtm4T8r0-2yc2yfHrZX338map2eBBsaIOZzDkPBkVhEd8FffZo5Mv1GRnakllHJgjZvVfpV6EG5ZzZiDOJ-ZbmX5JC0xsZ0jJhLptzosRs55bP5M0KBBkF2IDxGFBCLQRCdJf%7EgF4EXwXrtWy5YprTr2HKOmG%7Es7VCKi-usoubEYECBRRvTXMuMP53RIJ8yy-ny489Hg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
85a7dc955b9f151cc0d7fe8bf54368fe
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Shae Corey
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Josephine Jerald
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center, Rosedale Alabama
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
SHAE COREY: So, did you grow up in Rosedale your whole life or?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, all my life other than uh eighteen years of marriage. But, I, I've been in Rosedale all my life.
SHAE COREY: What was it like growing up in Rosedale?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Do you want to know my name?
SHAE COREY: Oh yeah, you can do your name.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: I'm Josephine Jerald, I live at 1708 25th Terrace South, Rosedale Alabama, 35209 and I love Rosedale, I don't want to live anywhere else. I feel safe, everybody friendly, everybody know everybody, we are all like family. Any problems, people will everybody come to each other, like funerals and banquets and churches we all like one family, when we go to the hospital, everybody, a lot of people come and visit with us. And it's just a good feeling to feel like you belong.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: So, I, I, this is Jefferson County, Rosedale AL and Rosedale Highschool was a like, was like a family, grades 1-12, I know no other school that, was like that. One, grades one through twelve. (Children in background) Everybody, the little ones were in elementary, then you moved in the same building to middle school and high school. The middle school and high school children took care of the elementary children to make sure they got home safely every evening, that was their job to make sure everybody got home safely. We walked home.
SHAE COREY: And everybody looked out for everybody else? In the neighborhood?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes. And we had books--but they was old books. Some of the pages was torn, but the, the, we made it through whatever we was taught.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: But the greater thing about Rosedale is I'm going to name you some of the people, the graduates and their occupation.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: One of my friends is a judge now, several nurses, several teachers, several lawyers, barber shop people, cosmetology, poets...
SHAE COREY: Wow.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: You name it.
SHAE COREY: So, they were well prepared for--
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Well prepared under the conditions that we had, we didn't have new books we had to use the books that was shipped from the better schools to us and some of the pages was torn out, but we still learned.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, yeah. Do you--
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Under those conditions.
SHAE COREY: So, this, I know the school and the churches were a really big part of the Rosedale community, right? And--
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, yes. But my sister, not here but she, she--is he bothering?
SHAE COREY: No, no he can touch it it's okay.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: My sister, not here to tell you but she was 90 years old, she got the flu today she wanted to come but what happened was she remembered when the school was burned on Loveless Street.
SHAE COREY: Aw. Really? Was that when the school was made of wood or?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Loveless Street changed to B.M. Montgomery Street, but it was Loveless Street, but the school caught on fire and burned, and the people had to go to the churches to have school.
SHAE COREY: Oh really? They had them in church after that?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, yes.
SHAE COREY: For how long? For just until they could rebuild the school?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: I don't remember but my sister, would remember if she was here.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: But they did have church in school because the school caught on fire on Loveless Street.
SHAE COREY: Mhm. Yeah. Well, do you know like why it burned or?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: I don't know how it burned or why, I don't know the reason I just remember her telling me that, I was so little.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, yeah. Do you remember when the school closed, because of desegregation?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, uh we went to uh Shades Valley as they closed this school down. And they went to Shades Valley, I forgot what year it was though.
SHAE COREY: 69, maybe? But how did that change the community do you think?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: It, it changed it because a lot of my friends and uh their parents wanted the children to go for segregation, but they didn't want to go because they were afraid and they were bullied and some came home hurt, and they couldn't study because they was too scared to study because they was so, the way they was treated in the classroom.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: They learned, but they did this because of the cause.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: They made history by going, but they didn't want to go because they were afraid.
SHAE COREY: Hmm. So how do you think the community has changed since then, like over time, since you've been here for so long?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Over time, the community's not as close because a lot got married and moved away, there's not as many homeowners like me. I live in a home house, I got married and came back home and my kids went to Homewood High School and uh his mother, his mother went to Homewood. So, this is my great grand, my great grandbaby.
SHAE COREY: Hi!
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Say hello.
(Laughter)
JOSEPHINE JERALD: So, we don't have the closeness as we used to.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: We, only closeness we have is the churches. But--
SHAE COREY: Okay, do you still go to...
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Yes, I got to Friendship Baptist Church but it's a lot of Mexicans, stop baby, and Latinos live in my community now, it's not the same like I can knock on your door and ask for a cup of sugar, they, they, speak English, they live that close to me but I don't feel like I can have a conversation with them. So, I don't try.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: But the lady on the right side, she's Caucasian, she's nice but I don't hardly see her.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
JOSEPHINE JERALD: But the one on the left side, Latinos, they don't say much but again still, and the one in front of me is Mexicans, I got about five on one street that's Mexicans I mean with me, but they don't bother me. Nuh uh, don't do that. But I don't fear. They, they, I don't feel--I feel safe with them but they don't feel safe to live next to me.
SHAE COREY: Do you think that like the church now, the churches in Rosedale are still like big, they still have the community feel of Rosedale or--
JOSEPHINE JERALD: They're not as close as they should be.
SHAE COREY: Not as close. Because the people don't live there?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: Uh huh, they moved out. Mhm. What time do you have?
SHAE COREY: It is...it is 4:32. Do you have to go?
JOSEPHINE JERALD: I have to go pickup my daughter from work.
SHAE COREY: Okay, well thank you so much for talking to me, uhm--
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
7:38
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Josephine Jerald Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest, Rosedale Memories
Description
An account of the resource
Josephine Jerald details her life in Rosedale, Alabama and the changes she has seen within the community over time.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
community
encroachment
gentrification
hometown
houses
neighborhood
-
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3cf4646db970f32079e20ff2a9ca0e5c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jonathan Lawson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Harriet Hall Pullom
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center, Rosedale AL
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
JONATHAN LAWSON: Alright, so this is Jonathan Lawson, uh would you mind telling me your name?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: My name is Harriet Hall Pullom, I was Hall when I grew up in Rosedale so that's my maiden name, Hall.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Okay.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yeah.
JONATHAN LAWSON: And how long have you lived in Rosedale?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I just turned sixty in November and I've been in Rosedale ninety percent of my life.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Wow, wow.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: And I wouldn't live anywhere else.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Why is that? Tell me what you love about Rosedale.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM : Uh, the thing that I love about Rosedale is the community aspect is that I always felt like we were always family, that you were never by yourself, that no matter what street you went on there was somebody who knew you and related to you and who would help you if you got in trouble, I just liked the community aspect of it.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Mhm, so tell me about some of the things that you remember growing up… maybe church or school or something along those lines?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: So, I went to Rosedale High School until that closed down, so it was always, we walked to school, we walked up the hill to school. And you knew all the people in your classroom and the teachers they were more than they--your teachers, they were your family. You could tell that they cared about you getting an education and wanting you to have an education and so they didn't put up with foolishness. That you had to do what you were supposed to do while you were there. Best cooks in the world, the lunchroom you know they were just they were on point, they always had good food, cinnamon rolls, peanut butter cookies, everything they all had their specialty.
JONATHAN LAWSON: You're speaking my language, now!
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: (Laughter) And the thing about it is, not only were they the people in the lunchroom, they were the people at your church. So, if you did something wrong at school, your parents would be in the know because they were going to tell on you. And that was the thing is that it takes a village, people say that now but actually when we grew up, it was a village. I mean, if you did something on one street, by the time you got home, somebody else already told your mom and you were going to be in trouble. And you better not say you didn't do it because you could not talk or tell adults were telling a story on you. If they said you did it, you did it.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So, I know you've been here, a long time--
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yeah.
JONATHAN LAWSON: What were some of the challenges you remember about this area growing up that you think really shaped your views of this area?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I think--I don't think we understood the challenge until we got older. I think because if I had sugar, you had sugar. If I had something you didn't have, then you could ask me for it and they would provide it. We used to call it like a cup, if you didn't have sugar then you sent next door and said, “Tell Mrs. so and so to send me a cup of sugar.” And if you needed something—and everybody on our street didn't have a telephone so if one person had a phone, it was the community's phone, you know they would say, “Go down the street and tell so and so they have a call,” so I don't think we really understood just how poor we were, because we never felt that. Because our parents never, never let us feel that way. Because if we needed something, there was going to be a way for us to get it. I can remember that, when we had to go to Edgewood and the Homewood High School and the middle school our parents got together, and they got a bus. You know they put their money, their resources together--we had a bus to take us to school because the school system did not provide that for us, so our parents always made sure that we had what we needed.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Is there a location or a building that is no longer here that you really miss?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I mean even this building is not the same way when we grew up, you know and the thing I miss is the High School from Rosedale being there, the school being there. We had stores, we had corner stores, you know, laundry mats, I can honestly say everything we needed was in our community. We had everything we needed in our community and so we didn't have to go out looking for things. And we were saying this in a meeting not too long ago is, I lived on the other side of the highway and we weren’t allowed to come on this side of the highway without adult supervision because it was always a highway, you know it was always dangerous and stuff so you kind of stayed on your side and they stayed and the only time you came together was either church or school.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So, my history of the area is not as, as good as it probably should be, uhm, was the highway built during the time that you were here, was it there already, how, how did that come about?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yeah because even when you came up here today, all that that's highway now used to be houses. We can remember when people lived there you know that it's, that it’s not there anymore and even going down there where there’s buildings are, where businesses are there were families that lived there so a part of Rosedale is missing because it's gone, it’s business now so a lot of what we knew as Rosedale isn't there anymore.
JONATHAN LAWSON: How do you think that shaped the community as it is today?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I, it's like when you grew up you really didn't really know what you had until it's gone, so I think people moved away, looking for better but didn’t realize they had it all the time. And so, when they grew up, they went to another community they didn't want to come back and now they wish they had that, because we had everything right here but as you grow up you think, you know, “I'm going to do better for myself” and instead of investing in this community, they invested somewhere else.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So why did you choose to stay?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I, I don't even know if I would know how to function anywhere else. You know, because, I still have that love for my community, even though it's not the same, I still have a next-door neighbor that if I need sugar, Miss Barbara gives me sugar, if she needs something you know. And so, uh I went to visit my daughter in D.C. and they were like do you have a security system, yeah, it's called Barbara Pope! (Laughter) And so, I know that if something happens, she's going to let me know, you know what’s going on and so we always had that. If somebody died in the community we went around we took up money for flowers or if somebody died and they didn’t have insurance, we would take up money to help the family out. So that’s why I say we always had the support we needed right here in our community.
JONATHAN LAWSON: What do you want the people of Birmingham as a whole to know about this area?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: It's that we love our community. We love our community. I would not move away. I just turned sixty in November, my kids say, “Ma you need to!” I want to be here. This is where I want to grow up and spend my life because it’s community, it’s love, it’s networking. And even though a lot of people have moved away, it’s nothing like coming back home and seeing those people.
JONATHAN LAWSON: That's wonderful, that's wonderful.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yeah.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Are there any areas that I haven't asked you about that you'd like to talk about or?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: I think you've done a good job!
JONATHAN LAWSON: Pretty good, okay.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Yes yes, you've done a good job and I'll just say that when we grew up there was always something for us to do. Like in the summer time we have Spring Park we used to have a swimming pool, we could go, and swim and they had programs in the summertime for us to have, we had programs we went on fieldtrips, they, like I said, they always provided us with what we need to grow so we never felt left out. We went to different trips, they would take us to Six Flags and you know we've always every summer we did a trip.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So, I'll ask you one last question, what are your dreams for this area in the next few years?
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Ah! I wish, it is my prayer that people would reinvest in the community that people would see the value of growing up in a community, the thing that I am proud of is that my kids got to experience Rosedale, so they know what it is to grow up in a community. My daughter lives in D.C. She doesn’t even know the person that lives next door to her. You understand? But we knew everybody knew everybody, so if I was in trouble, they would see about me. if they didn't see me, they would call and say hey are you alright over there? People miss that now, you know you walk in your house and you, you just an island. It's nothing like being in a community.
JONATHAN LAWSON: That's wonderful, thank you so much for your time.
HARRIET HALL PULLOM: Thank you, for your time, Jonathan!
(Laughter)
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
8:38
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Harriet Hall Pullom Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest, Memories of Rosedale
Description
An account of the resource
Harriet Hall Pullom narrates her experience living in Rosedale "90%" of her life. She recalls childhood memories of the area and speaks of her current living situation in the neighborhood. She speaks about her intense love for her community, the safety she feels within Rosedale and her hopes for the neighborhood's future.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
Birmingham AL
community
encroachment
family
generations
gentrification
home
Homewood AL
houses
memory
neighborhood
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b5d6674d652f94f589334f8028e2564e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Shae Corey
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Anna Marie Smith
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
SHAE COREY: Okay, so first if you could just tell us your full name.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Anna Marie Smith.
SHAE COREY: And uhm did you grow up in Rosedale?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Born here 1962.
SHAE COREY: Wow so what do you remember growing up here?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, my goodness. Like I said, born here 1962 lived here 'til 1980. So, I remember living in three different houses, here. Uh...
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yeah, one down on 25th place up on the car line--it's now next to where golden nugget used to sit, golden nugget restaurant. My father, Johnny Smith, served as head chef at golden nugget.
SHAE COREY: Really?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So, I had free reign on golden nugget. Walk in the back and see all the cooks and the waitress, and I got to wash the dishes, uh the owners of golden nugget were Harry Alexius and Johnny Alexius. My father served as chef there from 19, late 50's, I'd say '58, '59.
SHAE COREY: Wow, so golden nugget was segregated?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Let's put it this way, as a restaurant during that time, there were very, very few blacks that went to eat there as patrons. It was just, not done. Uh, again, I know it from the worker side, my father was the chef, my mama worked there as well.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And all the people used to work there. And Mr. Harry and Mr. Johnny. Uh, I went to Rosedale school, first grade.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Which was 68, 69. My first-grade teacher was Miss Kennedy. Uh, spent second grade, second grade it started, integration started. So, they closed Rosedale, and I started going to Shades Cahaba. My father went to Rosedale and graduated from Rosedale, so he went there for his elementary and high school years.
SHAE COREY: How did he feel about you, or how did he feel about the school shutting down?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh, he was very sad. This school was such a tremendous part of his community, everyone lived here. You have to understand for the blacks that lived here at that time, it was Rosedale and Parker. That was it. That's where we went to school. And for the high school, a lot of the people that lived in the Shannon Oxmoor area, some of those guys were bused into Rosedale, so they went to Rosedale as well. But for the most part it was those that live here in this community that went to Rosedale. It was grades 1-12, so, but uh yeah, so like I said, I went there first grade. So, I did have one year there. Uh, remembering all the people that lived here within the neighborhood, the Montgomery’s, the Lees, my great aunt and uncle, they lived right up the street here this is uh Elberta Wortham and G.W. Wortham, uh the Grangers lived up on the hill, Mr. Jeff Granger, Reverend Henry Granger. The Bensons who lived up on the hill, Mr. Morris Benson. Then all of us that lived down Central Avenue. Uh, the churches. I'm a member of Union Baptist Church, born and raised. I have a uh, thing, I don't know if you want to get a picture.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow, yeah that's wonderful.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: That is a picture of their fiftieth anniversary. My great aunt, Miss Wortham served as church secretary for 55 years.
SHAE COREY: So, it's been around since 1887?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, it's 132 years. It's the oldest church in Birmingham.
SHAE COREY: I'm just going to move this a little closer, so this sounds better.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Okay, it's the oldest church here in Homewood.
SHAE COREY: Wow, so has your, have generations of your family gone to this church?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, yes. My father was a member there, as I said my great aunt was a member there, I was born there, and still attend. Uh...
SHAE COREY: How do you feel that the churches, like, so we've listened to a bunch of different interviews from other Rosedale members of the Rosedale community, do you feel that the churches are such a big part of the community?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: They were, at my time.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: At my time, they were very important. Because you have to remember, people lived in the community, they went to the churches in the community. So, you walked to church, you walked to choir rehearsal, you walked to vacation bible school.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: You had friendship, Union and Bethel. So, and the pastors of those churches all worked together. Vacation Bible School was all three churches. Vacation Bible School was at Union, Vacation Bible School was 9-12. So, they had the general session was at Union, classes were held at friendship, classes were held at Bethel and everyone came back together at 12 at union and dismissed. So, the churches were a big part of the community because everyone who lived in the community went to one of the three. You went to one of those three churches, so yes, they were a big part of the community. And the sense of the community. And the people that lived in the community were very proud of the community, took care of it, pride in what it looked like, pride in the way it was kept. Pride in, everyone's actions. As adults, and as children, adults looked after children, they, they could speak to any child, anyone's child--tell them to sit down and stop and you sat down and stopped. (Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Yeah! (Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And when you got home, you got another whooping because Miss so and so had called your mama and told your mama what she had done. So yes.
SHAE COREY: Yeah! That's so funny, so I know uhm Mr. Bush's interview, he talks about how this man on the street told him like, "Hey you need to tie up your shoes," and he kind of like gave him some lip, he kind of talked back and that man told his dad, and then he got in trouble twice for it.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I tell people this constantly, I have seen grown men in my lifetime, behave and show more respect than I see in a six-year old today. The guys in the neighborhood, dependent on who it was, if it was one of the deacons, or one of the pastors, I've seen those men literally stand still and would not move until that person walked by--because they knew they were, had drunk a little bit, they would be stumbling a little bit, and they did not want Mr. Benson to see them stumble, did not want Mr. Granger to see them stumble, they would stand right there and not move until they got out the way and then they would start moving. So that shows you, they knew what they were doing but they had been taught you respect your elders and that's what they did. And even when we were playing as kids, the different houses that were the houses, everyone knew who they were, where they were, if it got a little bit rowdy, we were out in the street playing, the guys would come out and they start to get rowdy, they would say “Kids outside playing, take it in the house.” And they would literally stop and go back in the house.
SHAE COREY: Wow. (Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: But that was the culture. That was just the culture of the neighborhood. And it was a vibrant, working community. All of our parents worked. But everyone looked out for each other. No one locked the door. I mean that was just psh! In fact that wasn’t even thought of. Siting on the porch watching everybody go by. Sitting on the porch until one or two o’clock in the morning.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And you know, didn’t think a thing about it.
SHAE COREY: Yeah. Wow. So talking about that culture of community and culture of respect, what was your favorite part about growing up in Rosedale? Was it that community or?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, the community. And I think I said the oddest thing I think you don’t realize, you think, you don’t realize that you didn’t have what you didn’t know that you didn’t have. We thought nothing of it because as far as I was concerned, we were wealthy. We had a house, we had food, we had clothes, you had people that you knew, we had a community. So, it wasn’t like “Oh, I’m missing this or missing that” you didn’t get that feeling at all and I look back upon it now as being very grateful because in an odd way, my generation we actually had one foot in this community and the other foot in the white community because as I said, we started Shades Cahaba in second grade, we were that first class to integrate Homewood schools. So we went to school but you came back home. You came back home to Rosedale, you lived in Rosedale, you went to church in Rosedale, you still had that community and yet you were being educated in that world.
SHAE COREY: Mhm. What was that experience like for you?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I talk about it today, it was wonderful. I don’t know whether it was just because of where we are, our parents both black and white, but there was never this (points at skin), there was never color. I still have people I went to school with in second grade I still talk with, we still meet, we still have dinner. There was never this. There was just “Oh that’s just somebody I play with, because I know him from school.” So I don’t know what it was if it was just Homewood, if it was our parents, I don’t know but it was never an issue it was just never an issue.
SHAE COREY: Did any of the teachers from the Rosedale school, what, where did they go or what did they do after the school closed?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: That’s sad, because I don’t know. Miss Kennedy, which was the first grade teacher at Rosedale, I don’t know where she went. Now, I remember Miss Almetia Simmons, she went to Edgewood.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So, she when they closed Rosedale, she went to Edgewood and she stayed at Edgewood until she retired which was the late ‘70s. She was probably one of the first black teachers at Edgewood.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: But as far as the other teachers, I don’t know. I don’t know whether they were, because Rosedale was considered a county school so I don’t know if they were transferred to other Jefferson County schools. I don’t know. But that was just a tremendous talent that was gone because as I said I only went there first grade but my father went there his entire education so he remembered all the old teachers and I remember him speaking of all the old principals and how they ran the school and what you did but I don’t know whether they got transferred to other Jefferson county schools or not, I don’t know.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah. I just found it interesting because I know that that school was such a big part of the community and those teachers and those principals lived like within that community—
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh yes!
SHAE COREY: And so I was just wondering where they went because I feel like that would be just a loss to the community because they were so talented…
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, yes. And because you had educators and quite a few famous folks to come through Rosedale. Shelley Stewart. Fred Shuttlesworth. They attended Rosedale, so that’s where they went to school. Mrs. Farris, her brother is now like a district judge in Seattle, or something.
SHAE COREY: I think I've seen his name on little posters and stuff in yards!
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, yes. And the Jacksons. So all of those people that I knew as, as adults they attended Rosedale, so that's where they went.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, so. Tremendous amount of talent to come through this community. Uh, “Buckle” Montgomery is the uncle to William of the Commodores, William "Butch" King.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow!
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So Butch would come home, my age group would be so enamored in seeing him, because in the '70s the Commodores were huge!
SHAE COREY: Yeah!
ANNA MARIE SMITH: My dad was like "Oh, yeah Butch in town, oh hey."
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: But I was like, “What?!” and he was like, “Oh ok.” But you know he knew him as “Butch,” that's what he knew him as, he knew him as “Buck,” he knew E.P. Montgomery, he knew his granddaddy, he knew Miss King so he was like, “Oh yeah, that's Butch,” so he just went, “Oh ok,” so tremendous talent has been through this school and through this neighborhood. Miss (unclear) King is Butch's grandmother.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: The Alabama Book Smith Store? That was her house.
SHAE COREY: Oh wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: That was her house. That was Miss King's house.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, so kind of going off of that how do you, so you don't live in Rosedale anymore?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I do not we moved in 1980.
SHAE COREY: And so, do you come back here often?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I still attend church at Union.
SHAE COREY: Yes.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So I'm here once a week.
SHAE COREY: How do you think that it's changed or the church community has changed?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: The church community has changed but the neighborhood itself has changed, because number one the same people are not here. Those people have long since died. Uh, those of us in my age group we've moved and gone. Uhm, the houses are no longer here. The places and the lots that we see in the past, in my mind, that was miss and so and so's house or that was mister's so and so house, that's not here. And you don't see that. So that has changed. Uh, the people that live here now, their connection, their bond is not what my bond was to this community, not what my father's bond was to this community. So, not that there's anything wrong with that, but their bond is just not as strong. So those memories and those connections are not there for them.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: They didn't grow up here, they didn't live here. They just moved here so they just have a very different sense of what this neighborhood is compared to what I have of what it is, what Mrs. Mary Edwards has of it, she grew up and there's very few of the older members that are left. Here. That live in the neighborhood, uhm, in an odd way, my generation sometime I feel we failed, but there are reasons for that. Number one, it was etched into us, you will get your education. You will go to college or you'll go into the military. You're doing one of the two. And for 90 percent of us, we did not own our houses. Everyone rented from Mr. Lee. You could count on your hands the number of people that actually owned their property. So, when we say we're going to go off to school and come back to home, it was home but it wasn't what we owned. So as we went off to college, we moved, we went other places and we didn't have a piece of property to come back to and say this is my house. So we didn't have that, so it kind of balances out but that I find the hardest. To like, you know our parents did it but our parents lived there they didn't go to college they didn't go to the military, this was home this is where they stayed. Uh, but those of us that rented from Mr. Lee during that time, I think most people that live outside of Rosedale probably thought everyone owned their houses, because everyone kept it clean, they kept it neat, everyone was proud of where we lived, but no. Majority of the people did not own their houses, they were renting.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, yeah. Do you know, do you know who they were renting from? Was it somebody...?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Mr. Lee.
SHAE COREY: Mr. Lee.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Afton Lee. He owned most of the houses in this neighborhood.
SHAE COREY: Mhm.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Mr. Lee uh was wonderful he was great. Accept the house, do whatever you want to do with it, paint in it, fix it up, but he wouldn't go up on your rent. He couldn't do it but you could do it that was fine, but again everyone took pride of what they had and they kept it that way.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, yeah and I think that's a little different when someone in the community is the one that owns it.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, yes and as I said you could just name the number of people whoa actually owned their property.
SHAE COREY: It's Afton Lee, right?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, I'm sorry, Afton Lee Junior, Senior. His father was Damion Lee.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: So after Damion Lee was his father.
SHAE COREY: Damion or Dan?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Damion, D-A-M-I-O-N. So, yes.
SHAE COREY: Perfect.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Let's see, other memories, the pool, Spring Park, I remember when the pool opened it was a huge hit.
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Everyone went to the pool.
SHAE COREY: It gets hot here in the summer.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh yeah!
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Woo! Alabama.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh yeah! Yeah, everyone, everyone went to the pool. Because again, we're talking '69, '71, we were not allowed to go to Homewood Central Park. We didn't go there, so we had Spring Park, we had the pool it was always full. We played baseball in the middle of the street. And that was a big thing to do in front of Mrs. Barbara Tubb's house. Uh, but also just wait through we got done hitting the ball we would take their turns and we'd walk to the store, to Bruno's, the grocery store, down where the dance studio is now.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, well that was Bruno's, the Bruno's store.
SHAE COREY: Was Bruno's a grocery store?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes.
SHAE COREY: Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Huge. (Laughter) So that's where we went to the grocery store. Go to the grocery store. Take it back home. You could walk there, bring the buggy home, and take the buggy back. Yeah, many a day done that. Bring the buggy back, take the buggy back down to the store. Just what you did.
(Laughter)
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, local stores. The local stores, I said Bruno's. The local community stores was E.P. Montgomery's store.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, what was that?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: E.P Montgomery's little store was where you went in and then bought cookies and dill pickles and little sandwiches and yeah that was run by Mr. E.P. Montgomery and in front of Union Baptist Church there was his brother's grocery store, Charlie Montgomery, again where on the point of where that S. A. Walton building is, turn the corner in front of Union Baptist Church and all of that was houses.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: All of that was houses. There was houses facing Union, the other houses faced the pool and there was a little community store there and it was Mr. Charlie Montgomery's store, again you go in and you buy cookies, pickles.
SHAE COREY: Were they related to B.M. Montgomery?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, they were all brothers.
SHAE COREY: Brothers? Okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yes, B.M Montgomery, Charlie Montgomery, E.P. Montgomery, they were all brothers. And on Loveless Street was Charlie Montgomery he had a barber shop and a house. So, underneath was the barber shop he lived above. So those were all brothers. “Fess” Montgomery, well Professor Montgomery, we called him “Fess,” they were all brothers and their sister was Miss Montgomery, she lived, used to be a white house in front of Union which is now gone but that was their sister. That was all the Montgomery's.
SHAE COREY: Wow.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And uh Mr. Benson lived up on the hill, the Grangers lived up on the hill. I would say if you just walk, Miss Julia Finley, she ran the kindergarten, which really wasn't kindergarten I think it was just more like a daycare.
SHAE COREY: Like a pre-school kind of?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: I would say like pre-school, it was just where you went and stayed there during the day...
SHAE COREY: While your parents worked?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: While your parents worked and they came and got you from. So, Miss Julia Finley was a big part of the neighborhood she was always active in the Homewood City Council. She was always advocating for Rosedale. Uh, so Miss Finley, we had kindergarten at Miss Finley's or at Miss King's. So, there were two. Miss (unclear) King, the people who lived on this side of the street they went to Miss (unclear) King, the people who lived on the side of the street where Union is they went to Miss Finley. So that's kind of.
SHAE COREY: Just because it's closer?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: It's closer, yeah.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: That's just what you did.
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: And let's see, uh, as I said the churches, Union Missionary Baptist Church, Bethel A.M.E., Friendship Baptist Church, the Church of God, yeah those are the four.
SHAE COREY: I know we were walking around the neighborhood passing out flyers the other day and we saw a Coptic Church, did that used to be there or?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: No, that building has been there but that used to be the Church of God and Christ's Holiness Church.
SHAE COREY: Okay, okay.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Which was a black church. But that Coptic Church now, maybe, within the past five to ten years.
SHAE COREY: I was just curious because it seemed a little out of place, in the neighborhood.
(Laughter)
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yeah, yeah so now when you're there if you go continue up that street along the car line, we used to live at the end of that street. And that's called a car line, because they said that was the end of the line for the streetcar trolley that used to run through here. So that—
SHAE COREY: Wow. There used to be a streetcar that ran through Rosedale?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: It came all the way down, went all the way down to Edgewood, from around the mountain because that's the way you got around from downtown around the mountain to this side of town, it's considered over the mountain. So—
SHAE COREY: Wait, what happened to it?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Oh they just stopped it.
SHAE COREY: They just shut it down?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yeah, they just stopped it So, I know my great-aunt told me that the streetcar would run, that was the end of the line for the streetcar. It would run all the way down through Central Avenue, downtown what I consider downtown Homewood now, Edgewood, down the hill.
SHAE COREY: Wow. I didn't know that. That's super cool.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Yeah, let's see. Cemetery. I have often heard that's there's a cemetery here in this neighborhood, I don't know where it is.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, I don't know where it would go. Do you know where it would fit into the?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, I, the couple of guys I went to school with used to Mr. Cheryl, Mr. Sheerer now passed, I think it was kind of behind Loveless, oh I'm sorry, B.M. Montgomery Street, uh that way. But I've always heard that there was a cemetery in this neighborhood I just never knew where it was.
SHAE COREY: Hmm. That's super interesting.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Uh, the ball diamond I do not remember the ball diamond, I remember my father speaking about the ball diamond and the ball diamond was where Red Mountain Express is now. That was the ball diamond.
SHAE COREY: Mhm, and they'd play a bunch of different sports there, right?
ANNA MARIE SMITH: Well it was just where guys went and played baseball.
SHAE COREY: Yeah.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: The Golden Nugget Restaurant, as I said my father was a chef there, and uh it closed down when Mr. Harry died, say mid-80s, 80, probably 84 85. Was there anything else that, I don't know who I turn that in to.
SHAE COREY: Oh, yeah perfect.
ANNA MARIE SMITH: It was just a wonderful neighborhood, it was a wonderful, wonderful place to grow up. A lot of memories. And because it was such an old neighborhood and also one of the few neighborhoods for blacks in this area, we always considered it ours. And always very protective of it and very strong minded about it.
SHAE COREY: Yeah, well that's great thank you so much for letting us talk to you.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
25:03
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Anna Marie Smith Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
History Harvest Interview
Description
An account of the resource
Anna Marie Smith recalls her childhood in Rosedale, attending the Rosedale School and the process of integration in 1969; additionally, she describes the various influential figures of the neighborhood. She speaks of the churches, the culture of the community and the changes she has seen within her hometown.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
Birmingham
churches
community
culture
education
encroachment
family history
gentrification
Homewood
houses
neighborhood
religion
Rosedale School
-
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dbd5319fde7abb82cb5f45f0ec4c0c08
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Marlene Burnett Interview
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosedale Oral Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale, Alabama
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories recorded in Rosedale, Alabama by Samford University students.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Rosedale Residents
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Samford University Howard College of Arts & Sciences
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
Various dates
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Jonathan Lawson
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Marlene Burnett
Location
The location of the interview
Lee Community Center
Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound
JONATHAN LAWSON: So if you would tell me your name and uh how long you've been in Rosedale?
MARLENE BURNETT: My name is Marlena Burnette, uh I was born here in Rosedale I have moved around quite a bit but I am back permanently since I retired from the workforce, I beeline just straight back home and I love it because this is always and will be home.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So what is it about this area that you love?
MARLENE BURNETT: You know, I guess what I love most, is, is I can tell kids...being a child here I mean I can go back to that part it's because you can actually experience being a child back in the day when I lived here we played from sun up to sun down throughout the whole neighborhood, everybody knew everybody's child, there wasn't a whole lot of watching going on but if I mean it was just, we experienced something then that children can't experience now because there's too much danger. We knew where our boundaries were, where not to go, and we knew uh what it was like when your mama, when somebody said your mama calling you and you knew you better get home and you'd hear it somebody told you and you'd go home. That was it. We just had a real nice village. Of people that cared. Uh now coming back as a retired adult I just like it because it's laid back. My mom and I live together in our home, it's the same home house that my parents purchased back in the 20s.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Wow.
MARLENE BURNETT: And uh my grandfather worked really, really hard on that house to make it what it is today, I believe when he bought it, it was like three rooms and now it's like eight. I mean, you know, it's a nice large house. He completely dug a basement out himself, by himself. And that is, after working he would come home and always put a little work into his home. He made a family house for us and that was his intentions. Because he was always family first, take care of your family. So he always wanted us to have a place to come, to come back to. So that's what I did as an adult, I came back home and its quiet here. Uh, I don't really worry about anything going on and I think that's just what drew me back. You know, it's just home here. Now it's just, what's going to happen is me getting to remember the people that which were children we, when I mean young adults when I left because I been gone so long. But I'm working on that, yes.
(Laughter)
JONATHAN LAWSON: SO along those lines is there a restaurant or a location or somewhere that you remember from when you were younger that you really miss that may not be here anymore?
MARLENE BURNETT: Couple places, actually. That I can, that come off the top of my head is across from this community center, well now actually it's three because this center has evolved into a different center than what it was when I was a child. It's always been in this location but it definitely looked different on the inside.
JONATHAN LAWSON: How so?
MARLENE BURNETT: Oh, we used to, there were windows along this exterior wall that actually those windows that would push out and you'd pull them in and push it down to lock it those kind of things, it was a much smaller court area, that was flipped the other way. Every- I mean this place is definitely larger but I, I remember that center uh especially during the summer because there was always, there were activities for us to do. We did the uh we made potholders, key chains, and what is that stuff you do the molds? You pour the white stuff like the plaster?
JONATHAN LAWSON: Yeah, the plaster of Paris and all that?
MARLENE BURNETT: I think? Yes and you pour it in these little molds and you might have to wait until tomorrow or next day for it to harden up enough. Then you peel it off. I mean you had something you could actually sit out and play and paint, and when we did that along with, with some of these, like making the potholders and key chains was another place right across the street was the playground where they had actually a few picnic tables and a real sand bed that was used. It was awesome and a playground with a swing and a seesaw and your monkey bars and your slides. I remember and I miss that. Because it was, there was something for us to do and there was always activity there, kids laughing and playing and running and carrying on. But when I, that playground also has a memory for me because my great grandmother kept me when I was a child so she could, we could see the playground from our house and if there was someone at the playground that I wanted to go up there she wouldn't let me go, because she thought "oh I'm not going to send you, you might get in trouble". I don't know what it was about it but I would go grandma can I go to the playground and shed look out and oh okay you could go. But it was just like radar, as soon as another kid would come I had to leave, but mostly just good memories about this whole area and you know uh I do miss also the pool at spring park, that was, that was a real treat in the summer you'd go and swim every day and you know just hang out with your friends and it's gone. You know, I mean yeah there's a park you know but my god it's like now you've you got to travel to get to it, you got to pack up to get to it. While like Spring Park, we just had to take our towels our flip flops and be careful crossing that major highway there to go have some fun. You know, so and I miss the little store, there was a little store, the cooks, my neighbors had a little store there you could go and get your chips and your pickles if you wanted, your whole pickles and get little two for a penny candy, cookies, you know, you don't even know a thing about two for a penny cookies. But you go down there with a nickel you got ten cookies, right? And so, but hum, I don't mind change it's just that when you take away some of the things that negatively impact a community and cause kids now need somewhere to run and play safe, I mean all they do now is this with their fingers and by the time they're six or ten they're going to have arthritis in those thumbs. This gave them an outlet for them to do something outside.
JONATHAN LAWSON: I know it's difficult to see when you're that age but looking back what were some of the challenges that you may not have seen at the time that the community faced that you all made it through?
MARLENE BURNETT: Well, I mean the discussions in our household we could hear them. Some of the challenges were voting, just actual, to vote. I can remember being a kid I mean little child and I would go to the polls with my grandparents and my mom. I can remember then making sure everyone had their two dollar poll tax because you had to pay to vote. And so, you know, I'm glad that that's gone, I think that was more of a challenge to them but it instilled in me just what a privilege it is to vote if you had to pay-- two dollars back then was a lot of money hum I've seen, I saw my grandfather make sure everybody in his family had that two dollars, not just in his household but everybody in the family had to have that two dollars. So uh and the other challenges here was just watching how the community changed dynamically with the structure, structurally. You know, I miss some of the wooded areas. It was beautiful, it was nice to see the animals come out of the woods and kind of prance around. Actually, we still have a cat, cats, feral cats that come up and we feed them every day They know when the garage door comes up that it's time to eat but we also before they did all this building with that huge bank that's really sitting in our backyard we had foxes, raccoons, we had the cats of course and they all would eat together, it was the most amazing thing to see. How they would all just wait, that raccoon would just sit down right next to you and I'm not crazy I'm not going to put my hand down there but he would sit there and wait for the food and they all would eat and it was just, it just dawned on me one day that these animals came and sit and eat with each other and we as people can't do anything together without squabbling or trying to get more than your share and this that or the other. But that was, that just put something in my head that was amazing about the animal kingdom other than man. They smarter than us!
(Laughter)
MARLENE BURNETT: You know, they try to survive and they know that they all have to eat and that's what they did so you know. And I know, I think I went off on a tangent. (Laughter)
JONATHAN LAWSON: You know it's funny how God puts things into perspective that way sometimes.
MARLENE BURNETT: Yes, yes!
JONATHAN LAWSON: We were talking about some of the challenges and...
MARLENE BURNETT: Oh, okay.
JONATHAN LAWSON: And how you know you feel like the change is tough but you have to adapt and...
MARLENE BURNETT: Yeah, you know like I said about the pool's gone and they did that before I was an adult or whatever but that highway when they made it bigger, that's just challenging to get across that darn thing, it's like you're risking your life cause you got so many things going on an one time to get across to the other side, there's no cross walk there's no nothing.
JONATHAN LAWSON: What was the community response to that? Was, do you remember, were there groups that formed that tried to fight that, how did that go down?
MARLENE BURNETT: Well, I wasn't here but I do remember the conversation around it within my family and some other people that actually. You know sometimes people don't actually contribute to the cause but they're willing to squabble because it happened. So, yeah, there was some resistance to it. I can remember at one point actually going to a council meeting and it kind of got emotional uh and ask them why, why do you keep disrupting this side of Homewood? Push back the other side a little bit sometimes. Go that way, but you know it's, it's a challenge now, you know, another big one is getting the community to come together, we are so diverse, now, Homewood, uh has changed, or Rosedale has changed dynamically it wasn't all black, African-American I don't know, I don't care what that Vulcan thing says about this nursery man, I've never heard that. First time I've ever heard it, not to say that's not true but a few of us read it and we go hmm don't remember that. Well, uh so just being that kind of dynamic and now the diversity is to include everybody but everybody doesn't think the same and we know we never will but you need to know that your neighbor we need to know what you feel how do you feel when you look around your surroundings don't look like what your used to so let's discuss that. You know and make it so that we can be a community that cares about each other, not just a few people trying to drag the whole load. Because it's only a few, I mean seriously let's just get everybody involved. You know one day you might have your home and the next day just because you aren't paying attention it's gone. Because of something that the city decided they needed to do, but you need to know that. I mean you know it's like pulling teeth, you can't do it if people don't want to participate. They're adults, you can't make me.
JONATHAN LAWSON: So I know you've touched on a little bit, but what is your dream for the next few years for this area what would you love to see happen in this community?
MARLENE BURNETT: Okay what I would love to see happen is for a massive, it's a lot of things, I don't want to call it clean up but we have a lot of vacant properties here, I would like to see it come back to--it'll never be like it was but come back to a community that I would love to just ride through and be like "Oh my God, that looks lovely" and "That looks gorgeous" and everybody is taking care of their properties and it looks good. You know to have some, some accountability of what your stuff is supposed to look like, that's what I would like to see you know it's a beautiful community, because it was it used to be roses everywhere, that's how it got its name. It's gorgeous and I like to see less commercial building, because these, these commercial buildings, they're taking over. And you stick these buildings in the middle of our neighborhood saying, and we're at the tail end of knowing that this is what's about to happen. By the time we know, typically, it's done. It's done. So I would like to see that changed where we-you're given a, a fair opportunity really, a fair opportunity not just say come to the meeting but listen to me if I have an objection to what you want to do. Don't just hear me, listen to what I'm saying. I don't think, I don't think, I think that's, that needs to change. We need somebody that really listens and cares.
JONATHAN LAWSON: Well this is, this has been great. I'll ask you one last question, what do you want the people of Birmingham in general as a whole, what do you want them to know about Rosedale? What is it about this place that is special?
MARLENE BURNETT: What's special is that because we're a small community that we can come together and, and make it, it's safe, make a safe environment for the generations to come. Let's, let's pull them from areas that don't give them the same opportunities to run and play, even though we don't have the playground anymore but just they can be outside and somebody's not going to come snatch them away. You know, come live in Homewood and see the diversity and just in this small area and there's no issues, and if there are issues I don't know about them because I've never heard about them. It's too quiet. It's quiet here, you know and I would have to support that it's quiet because there are certain people who do watch the community, the community watches people that, and they're silent about it but they watch and they know nothing really happens here. So I would say people of Birmingham, just come check it out. And, and see what Homewood or Rosedale has to offer.
(Child in Background)
JONATHAN LAWSON: Thank you so much.
MARLENE BURNETT: Thank you, Jonathan.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
17:08
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Marlene Burnett Interview
Subject
The topic of the resource
Rosedale History Harvest
Description
An account of the resource
Marlene Burnett describes growing up in Rosedale and living there as an adult. She shares her memories about Spring Park, the Lee Community Center and the Montgomery's store. Marlene also describes her feelings regarding Homewood City Council meetings and issues of encroachment.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
March 24, 2019
Alabama
childhood
community
encroachment
gentrification
home
Homewood
houses
neighborhood
Rosedale